HC Deb 15 December 1986 vol 107 c772
52. Mr. Dalyell

asked the Minister for the Civil Service what terms and conditions of service apply to civil servants giving evidence in courts abroad on behalf of Her Majesty's Government.

The Minister of State, Privy Council Office (Mr. Richard Luce)

The normal arrangements for civil servants on duty visits abroad apply in these circumstances.

Mr. Dalyell

Does the right hon. Gentleman quarrel with £120,000 a day as the cost of that action in the New South Wales court? If he does not accept that figure, will he give his own figure, or the total cost to date, regardless of the judgment?

Mr. Luce

I am not answerable for the court case that is going on in Australia. Matters of security are for my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, but I think that she said in an answer not too long ago that, since the court case has not finished, we cannot give a precise figure. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman ought to be able to wait.

Sir John Page

Are any special arrangements made when civil servants give evidence which might last quite a long time at the Court of Human Rights at Strasbourg?

Mr. Luce

I am afraid that, without notice, I cannot answer that question directly, but I shall try to give my hon. Friend an answer by letter.

Dr. McDonald

Does the Minister agree that the Minister who is chiefly responsible for the Civil Service—the Prime Minister—should, in view of the doctrine of ministerial responsibility, make a formal apology to the Australian courts because of the way in which Sir Robert Armstrong, the head of the Home Civil Service, has been obliged to mislead the courts there at the Government's behest?

Mr. Luce

I find that kind of question deplorable. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister puts the national security of this nation first. I hope that the hon. Lady does that as well.

Mr. Marlow

To follow the point made by the hon. Member for Thurrock (Dr. McDonald), if anybody has come out of this event with banana skin wrapped all over his face, is it not the Leader of the Opposition?

Mr. Luce

The whole nation sees that now.

Mr. Dalyell

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's reply, I give notice that I shall seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.