Northern Region (Hansard, 14 April 1986)

§ 44. Mr. Dormand
asked the Minister for the Civil Service how many Civil Service posts have been transferred to the northern region since 1979.

§ Mr. Luce
The dispersal programme announced on 26 July 1979 did not include the transfer of any posts to the 577 northern region. No proposals for major relocation of Government work to the northern region have been made since 1979. Details of posts that may have been transferred there by Departments for management reasons are not held centrally.

§ Mr. Dormand
Is the Minister aware that the Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the Exchequer assured me last year that the 1985 so-called Budget results would increase employment in the northern region, whereas in fact unemployment has been increased. As this year's Budget will further increase unemployment in the northern region, does the Minister agree that it takes direct action, such as the transferring of Civil Service jobs, to reduce unemployment? In view of what he said, will he assure me that the matter will be seriously considered?

§ Mr. Luce
I understand the hon. Gentleman's concern about unemployment in his region. The fact is that the northern region has a higher proportion of civil servants in relation to the working population than have most other regions in the country. When it comes to relocations, under existing Government Department policies the Departments are asked to put regions first when considering giving support to other areas and moving civil servants outside London.

§ Mr. Dickens
Is it not a fact that there are now 150,000 fewer people working for the Civil Service than was the case when the Government came into office? Despite this, I understand that the efficiency of the Civil Service is as high today as it has ever been in the history of the service. Since that is the case, will the Minister give the Civil Service a pat on the back on behalf of this House?

§ Mr. Luce
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Against the background of a considerable reduction in the size of the Civil Service, to just under 600,000 compared with 733,000 in 1979, it is true to say that, under the reforms that have taken place, in that time civil servants have become even more professional than they were before. They are performing their duties admirably.

§ Mr. Campbell-Savours
Why does the right hon. Gentleman not answer the question asked by his hon. Friend? Is it not true that civil servants up and down the land are complaining about the lack of numbers and about the fact that they cannot cope? Why does the Minister not answer directly and tell us what civil servants are saying to him privately?

§ Mr. Luce
Perhaps I should say in answer to the earlier question that four out of five civil servants are already working outside London. As I have said, the northern region takes a larger proportion of the working Civil 578 Service population than do most other regions. Certainly we have a strong interest in the regions, but I have said what is happening.

§ Mr. Forth
Why should civil servants be relocated to the north, rather than the west midlands or anywhere else, other than on the criterion of efficiency?

§ Mr. Luce
The last word used by my hon. Friend is right, because clearly efficiency is the key in this case. It is extremely expensive to move civil servants from one region to another or, indeed, from the centre to regions. Our dispersal policy, still to be completed, involves moving 5,900 civil servants to the regions.

§ Mr. Pavitt
Does the Minister realise that there is a crisis in Newcastle on Tyne because of the shortage of civil servants employed on social security matters? All hon. Members know that, whenever we have constituency surgeries, elderly people come to see us because pension books are not coming through on time. Something should be done to provide more, not fewer, civil servants.

§ Mr. Luce
The hon. Gentleman will have noticed that there is flexibility, in that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services has already announced a plan to increase the number of civil servants in the DHSS to enable it to cope with some of the problems. There is flexibility in the Government's policy.

§ Mr. Fallon
What sense does it make to pay London weighting allowance to civil servants in London when the same work can be done more cheaply and beneficially in regions such as the north-east and the north-west, which have high unemployment?

§ Mr. Luce
As I said earlier, four out of five civil servants work in the regions. In London, we must have a policy that encourages recruitment and retention. Our policies are designed to that end.

§ Mr. Wrigglesworth
Will the Minister refute the suggestion that is made in the Financial Times this morning that the London weighting will be further increased because vacancies for civil servants in London cannot be filled? Will he reconsider providing more Civil Service posts in the regions, where they can be filled overnight?

§ Mr. Luce
London weighting has been considered in the context of the annual pay discussions. The key question, which we must ask, is whether we are pursuing policies in the Civil Service in London which allow adequate recruitment and retention.