HC Deb 14 April 1986 vol 95 cc575-6
43. Mr. Dalyell

asked the Minister for the Civil Service if he will make a statement on his response to the First Division Association's representations over the position of civil servants arising out of the Westland affair.

The Minister of State, Privy Council Office (Mr. Richard Luce)

No, Sir.

Mr. Dalyell

What do the Government think of the view of Sir Frank Cooper, a former permanent secretary at the Ministry of Defence, set out in the Suntory-Toyota lecture at the London School of Economics, that the post of chief information officer at No. 10 Downing street has become a political party post rather than a Civil Service post and should not be occupied by a civil servant? What do the Government say to Lord Bancroft, who thinks that over the Westland affair Ministers abused the Civil Service? Should not such heavyweight opinions be taken seriously? Is Mr. Bernard Ingham's position any longer tenable?

Mr. Luce

The hon. Gentleman is talking absolute nonsense. The position has been made clear time and again by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and in evidence to the Select Committee by Sir Robert Armstrong. I disagree with everything that the hon. Gentleman has said.

Sir David Price

Does my right hon. Friend recognise the particular problem for press officers, information officers and public relations men in the Civil Service when their trade as public relations men marries ill with the traditional anonymity of the Civil Service and is almost a contradiction in terms?

Mr. Luce

I note what my hon. Friend has to say, but the principle of the impartiality of the Civil Service remains at the foundation of its success. It must stay that way.

Mr. Wrigglesworth

Does the Minister accept that when there is a breakdown of collective responsibility, as there was over the Westland affair, and on other occasions, civil servants can be put in a frightful dilemma, which is not catered for in the Armstrong memorandum? Will the Minister therefore examine the matter again to ensure that such circumstances as arose during the Westland affair are catered for in a redraft of the memorandum?

Mr. Luce

The Select Committee on the Treasury and Civil Service is about to publish its findings after months of investigation into the relationship between the Civil Service and Ministers. Naturally, we await that report with interest.

Dr. McDonald

Will the Minister take on board the fact that the breakdown of the collective responsibility of Ministers during the Westland affair has created a new situation? Will he ensure that the Government do not merely use waiting for the Select Committee's report as an excuse for delay? Do the Government agree that it is absolutely necessary to provide an update of the statement on civil servants' duties beyond Sir Robert Armstrong's letter of last year and to provide an independent body to which civil servants can refer in cases involving conflicts of conscience?

Mr. Luce

The guidelines provided by Sir Robert Armstrong and announced in February 1985 provide a good basis for civil servants. The hon. Lady might be interested to know that the Council of Civil Service Unions is due to meet Sir Robert Armstrong shortly, when all these matters about the relationship between civil servants and their Ministers can be discussed.

Mr. Dalyell

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise Mr. Bernard Ingham's position on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.