§ 6. Mr. Chapmanasked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will make a statement about the situation in schools, following the declared end of the teachers' industrial action.
§ Sir Keith JosephFollowing the 1985 pay settlement and the opening of talks led by the ACAS appointed panel, many teachers have returned to full normal working, but I am sad to say that disruption has continued in many schools in England and Wales. Such disruption is even more indefensible now that talks covering pay, structure, duties and responsibilities are taking place.
§ Mr. ChapmanI welcome the belated agreement to the 1985 pay settlement at a level ahead of inflation. Does my right hon. Friend agree that any long-term solution must not only consider improved pay and promotion prospects for teachers, but must include an unequivocal definition of teachers' responsibilities and some sort of performance assessment? Does my right hon. Friend also agree that any disruption in the schools before these talks are concluded, or any attempt by any union to dismiss certain parts of what must be a total package; will be vigorously objected to not only by parents but by the public at large?
§ Sir Keith JosephI think that what my hon. Friend has formulated lies within the agreement reached by ACAS with the local education authorities and with at least five of the teacher unions. The National Union of Teachers, to a certain extent ambiguously, is associating itself with the talks.
§ Mr. WeetchMy question refers to the abiding situation in schools. Does the Secretary of State realise that one of the deplorable features in state schools is the increasing level of violence outside and inside the classroom against members of the teaching profession? Has the Secretary of State received a report from the NAS/ UWT on the appalling level of violence against teachers in some parts of the country? Has he considered it, and if not, will he consider it carefully and consult local education authorities as to ways in which this deteriorating situation can be dealt with?
§ Sir Keith JosephYes, I have received such a report. I share anxieties about it. I have to point out that although the subject has validity, the report represents a 3 per cent. response to an inquiry by the NAS/UWT of its members. Nevertheless, I do not doubt that violence takes place and 9 is enormously to be regretted. I take the view that a good head teacher makes a huge difference to a school. I shall certainly study the report and anything that might be done seriously.
§ Mr. LordIs my right hon. Friend aware that in some schools in my constituency of central Suffolk no homework is being set, some pupils have had only one school report in three years, and many pupils are now having to decide on their state examination options without their parents having had any consultations with the teachers who will be teaching them throughout that period? Does my right hon. Friend agree that the teachers concerned in this action must be well aware of the permanent damage that they are doing to the children and that they ought to be made to carry out at least those basic duties?
§ Sir Keith JosephI share entirely the reaction of my hon. Friend. I have time and again paid tribute to those teachers, including head teachers, who, despite every pressure, have not responded to the encouragement to disrupt from some teachers' unions. I deplore the disruption that some teachers' unions have encouraged their members to take. It is entirely wrong that pupils should be penalised, and I agree with my hon. Friend. The employers—the local education authorities—must consider their reaction to the behaviour of such teachers.
§ Mr. EvansCan the Secretary of State confirm that the sensible agreement reached between the Scottish Office and the Scottish teacher unions has made his task of trying to reach a sensible agreement with the English and Welsh teachers' unions almost impossible? Will he guarantee that no matter what ACAS recommends in its inquiry into the dispute, he will accept it?
§ Sir Keith JosephI cannot give that assurance to the House. The Government have said that they will seriously consider any recommendations that emerge from ACAS. The hon. Member must realise that the position in Scotland was not paralleled in England, where the ACAS initiative has broken the deadlock.
§ Mr. KeyOne tragic side effect of the dispute is the loss of contact time out of school between the teaching profession and pupils. Is the Secretary of State satisfied that this is, therefore, a good time to deregulate Sunday trading, when that might lead to pupils having less time for school preparation? The teachers unions are extremely worried about that. Will he ensure that there is no unfortunate educational side-effect to this measure?
§ Sir Keith JosephI congratulate my hon Friend on introducing his views on Sunday trading into this question. I cannot accept that, whatever happens to Sunday trading, it will have the result that he fears.
§ Mr. RadiceIs the right hon. Gentleman aware, after four and a half years as Secretary of State, and after seven years of Conservative Government, that even Ministers acknowledge that our schools are in a crisis? As he is an honest man, will he accept that when the contenders for the succession so publicly and obviously submit their competing job applications, and when he has so clearly lost the confidence of parents, teachers and local authorities, the time has come for him to stand aside and allow someone else to clear up the mess?
§ Sir Keith JosephI welcome the hon. Gentleman's acknowledgement earlier that the Opposition agree with 10 the Government that the new GCSE examination should be introduced. A by-product of the present tragic state of schools is the fact that all parties in the House acknowledge that higher standards in the state education service are greatly to be desired, for the benefit of children and the country as a whole. I hope that, out of that general recognition, much good can come from the present misery.
§ Mr. FallonIs my right hon. Friend not constantly amazed at his tolerance and patience? If the NUT now demands a veto on what its members will teach and when they will teach it, has not the time come to scrap the Burnham machinery and introduce legally enforceable contracts between teachers and employers?
§ Sir Keith JosephI need no persuasion that it may be sensible to abolish the Burnham machinery. I need to know what might suitably and appropriately take its place.