HC Deb 08 April 1986 vol 95 cc10-2
7. Mr. James Lamond

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he is satisfied with the arrangements of local education authorities in giving effect to section 2 of the Education (Amendment) Act 1986.

10. Mr. Litherland

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he is satisfied with the arrangements made by local education authorities for training supervisors for midday supervision as a result of section 2 of the Education (Amendment) Act 1986.

13. Mr. Greenway

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will make a statement on lunchtime supervision in schools.

14. Mr. Thurnham

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many local authorities have not yet sought additional funding for lunchtime supervision for schoolchildren.

Mr. Chris Patten

Sixty five local education authorities in England have submitted bids or draft schemes in application for education support grant for midday supervision. Thirty two LEAs have yet to submit a scheme, although 26 of these have made informal inquiries of the Department. Forty nine LEAs have had their proposals approved. This represents satisfactory progress in the short time since the Education (Amendment) Act 1986 came into force. It is for LEAs to make their own arrangements for training supervisors.

Mr. Lamond

Does the Minister realise that the plain truth about the midday supervision scheme is that it is grossly underfunded, and was introduced without adequate consultation? It is causing great concern to parents throughout the country, including those in my constituency. Should he not grasp the nettle now and introduce a national plan, which would at least prevent an unmitigated disaster, even by the pathetic standards of his own lame duck Department?

Mr. Patten

I am delighted that the Oldham local education authority has submitted a scheme, which we have been able to approve, subject to certain inquiries on our part. That represents good progress. But I fear that if we had suggested a national plan we would have been accused of centralisation, and that really would not do.

Mr. Litherland

Does the Minister not agree that a national scheme would be more beneficial and would give equal supervision to all children? If the scheme is left to local education authorities, what confidence can parents have that the supervisors will be adequately trained and will have the necessary experience?

Mr. Patten

This is an issue for local education authorities, and I hope that the hon. Gentleman's constituents will have every confidence in the scheme submitted by the Manchester local education authority.

Mr. Greenway

Is it not scandalous and dangerous that children should be locked up in schools during lunchtime? Is not the Act, and the way that it is working, to be welcomed? Is my hon. Friend aware that some head teachers are concerned that assistant teachers operating the scheme may earn more than they do, and that that is why they have some reservations? Will he look into that possibility and ensure that it does not arise?

Mr. Patten

I understand what my hon. Friend has said. We want to see that head teachers are paid properly for the responsibility that they carry. That would, of course, have been one of the consequences if the teachers associations had accepted the 12 September package.

Mr. Thurnham

What action can be taken in the case of those head teachers who are not co-operating in making the new arrangements work?

Mr. Patten

It is more a question of encouraging the remaining local education authorities to put in bids for schemes. I very much hope that all head teachers will help to make the arrangements work. I know how hard head teachers have had to work during the past year, and we greatly admire the way in which they have carried their burden.

Mr. Flannery

Why does the Minister not admit to something that no one knows about? Why does he not tell the House that the £40 million is not only not enough, but is taken out of the £1.25 billion being offered to the teachers, which is in itself inadequate? Ministers never tell people where the money is coming from.

Mr. Patten

As a matter of interest, both the public and the teachers, in particular, were told that on 5 August 1985.

Sir Kenneth Lewis

Is my hon. Friend aware that I and many teachers and parents are convinced that teachers make the best supervisors? They should be encouraged to pick up the extra money and to supervise school meals. The only thing stopping them is the NUT, in particular, and some of the other unions.

Mr. Patten

I do not think that only teachers can supervise at lunchtime, but some local education authorities are introducing schemes involving teachers. We have made it clear that teachers should carry out such duties on a contractual basis.

Mr. Andrew F. Bennett

Why did the Government not heed the Opposition's warning that there should he national standards for midday supervision and a basic training scheme? Does the Minister agree that he has now offended the National Association of Head Teachers as a result of his proposal? Have we not seen yet another example of the Government's determination to offend everyone involved in education, and to cause as much difficulty as possible?

Mr. Patten

No.

Mr. Couchman

Is my hon. Friend aware that both parents and governors are writing to us suggesting that some schemes put forward by local education authorities propose an inadequate level of supervision? Will he ensure that when he approves schemes he takes careful account of that so as to reassure parents and parent governors?

Mr. Patten

I can certainly give my hon. Friend that assurance.

9. Mr. Dixon

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when he last met the National Association of Head Teachers to discuss the implementation of the Education (Amendment) Act 1986.

Mr. Chris Patten

My right hon. Friend met the NAHT on 3 January. I met the NAHT myself on 28 January. My right hon. Friend and I are always willing to discuss matters of common concern with the teacher unions, although no date has been set for a further ministerial meeting with the NAHT.

Mr. Dixon

Is the Minister aware that the National Association of Head Teachers, 16 counties and 24 metropolitan district counties, including my district council of South Tyneside, have suggested that there should be a national plan for midday supervision? Why does the hon. Gentleman not listen to them? How does he propose to ensure that children are properly and equally supervised?

Mr. Patten

That is the general view of local authorities. I am delighted that South Tyneside local education authority was one of the first to apply for help under the education support grant. We acted in the Education (Amendment) Act 1986 to deal with a longstanding grievance. I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman and others are criticising us for doing so.