Under-fives Initiative

HC Deb 08 May 1984 vol 59 cc722-3

6. Mr. Andrew F. Bennett

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will make a statement on the progress of the under-fives initiative.

Mr. John Patten

This initiative was launched by my right hon. Friend in October with 80 projects to be managed by 14 major voluntary bodies working in the child care field. Almost all of these schemes are now under way. A further 22 projects run by small local groups are receiving support through the National Council for Voluntary Child Care Organisations as the Department's agent. A sum of £648,000 was paid during the financial year 1983-84.

Mr. Bennett

Does the Minister agree that that is a small sum of money, which works out at about five second-class stamps per child? Is he aware that many of those who originally intended to take up the scheme had to drop out because sufficient funding was not available? Will he confirm that provision for the under-fives is seriously under threat as more and more urban aid programmes come to an end and local authorities, because of rate-capping, cannot take responsibility for them?

Mr. Patten

I am surprised at the churlish attitude adopted by the hon. Gentleman towards this very welcome scheme. It has been welcomed by the voluntary organisations. I should have thought that the hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends would welcome it, as it is aimed at exactly those groups — such as ethnic minorities, one-parent families and parents on low incomes — about whom they tell us they are so concerned.

Mr. Greenway

Is it not a fact that more under-fives are in nursery schools, playgroups or other facilities provided by my hon. Friend's Department than ever before?

Ms. Harriet Harman

Two per cent.

Mr. Greenway

Yes—more than ever before.

Ms. Harman

It is not enough.

Mr. Greenway

It is more than any Labour Government ever did. Is it not essential to do everything possible for the under-fives, especially those in deprived areas?

Mr. Patten

Yes, my hon. Friend is right. A record number of under-fives are receiving one sort of care or another under provisions from both my Department and the Department of Education and Science. We need to do everything possible to develop new modes of care, especially informal modes. That is why the Select Committee's report is so interesting-it certainly does not suggest any great growth in institutional care.

Ms. Richardso

Is the Minister aware that, although he may be giving £2 million to the voluntary sector, some of his ministerial colleagues are taking money from that sector? Is he aware that with the abolition of the GLC will go its provision of £3 million a year for the under-fives? Because of rate penalties, services must be cut.

Is it not a fact that what the hon. Gentleman's Department is doing is cosmetic because it is giving money on the one hand, while other Departments take it away on the other?

Mr. Patten

It is not at all cosmetic. The under-fives initiative, which has been so widely welcomed, involves the expenditure of £2 million a year for three years. On the hon. Lady's point about the GLC and other councils that may be abolished, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment has made proper provision for the handling of the interests of voluntary bodies.