HC Deb 08 May 1984 vol 59 cc720-1
5. Mr. Favell

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what is the extent to which the increase in money made available for personal social services expenditure reflects the increase in number of the elderly.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Services (Mr. John Patten)

The Government do not earmark any particular sum to be spent on different parts of the personal social services. Demographic and similar pressures, including the rising numbers of the elderly, are however reflected in the indicative planning figure used for block grant distribution.

Mr. Favell

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that answer. It is obvious that the rising number of elderly people present an increasing problem to his Department. May I draw my hon. Friend's attention to an excellent scheme in Stockport, where the elderly are fostered in private homes rather than being taken into council homes, which saves a great deal of money for councils? Would he like to commend that scheme to other authorities?

Mr. Patten

That is a very entrepreuneurial and farsighted scheme by the local counc—[Laughter.] It is all very well for Opposition Members to laugh, but providing such forms of care in an informal and domestic atmosphere may be much better for elderly people than providing expensive accommodation.

Mr. Meadowcroft

Will the Minister consider exempting from penalty the results of joint finance, which encourage some experimental schemes for helping the rising number of elderly people in the community?

Mr. Patten

I am happy to say that the enforcement of penalties on local authorities is not one of my responsibilities.

Mr. Andrew Bowden

Since the number of those over 85 years old is likely to increase by about 50 per cent. in the next 15 years, what long-term planning is being done? Will my hon. Friend take particular note of the problems that that will create for certain health authorities such as mine, where so many elderly people live?

Mr. Patten

I am well aware of my hon. Friend's longstanding interest in this matter and of the fact that his constituency contains a rapidly aging sector. The Government are undertaking longer-term strategic action in a number of ways, including the development of new policy plans, examining expenditure and, especially, looking at ways of encouraging local authorities to become more efficient in what they are doing, to save more money and to involve themselves in the greater provision of care for the elderly.

Mr. Holt

Does my hon. Friend recall that in a recent Adjournment debate he replied to me about Alzheimer's disease? This is now funded by the Manpower Services Commission. What funds will be available after those funds dry up?

Mr. Patten

I well remember the Adjournment debate to which my hon. Friend refers. My Department already centrally grants the Alzheimer's Disease Society to help it with its central administrative costs. Otherwise, the help comes from individual health authorities which make grants-in-aid.

Ms. Harman

How will the Government ensure that already hard-pressed social services departments properly inspect and supervise the enormous growth in private old folks' homes — a business which is booming at the taxpayers' expense? Even though the registration fees for old folks' homes are to be raised, is the Minister satisfied that the registration fees will bring in enough money to provide the resources needed for supervision? Will the increased registration fees go towards inspection and supervision and not into the general coffers?

Mr. Patten

My right hon. and learned Friend the Minister for Health has already announced an increase in the registration fee to be charged by local authorities. That should be more than adequate to cover the cost of the increased amount of time spent by social workers—quite rightly—in examining private homes and ensuring that they are well run—as most of them are, as we know from our constituencies.