HC Deb 11 June 1984 vol 61 cc638-40
35. Mr. Sheldon

asked the Minister for the Civil Service if he will make a further statement on the progress towards an open structure in the Civil Service.

Mr. Hayhoe

Following my statement of 23 November last year I am pleased to confirm that the open structure was extended on 1 January to include nearly 6,000 senior managerial staff who were previously in approximately 100 separate grades down to senior principal level. We are currently examining the case for a further extension of unified grading to include grades at principal level. The study should be completed shortly.

Mr. Sheldon

Although I warmly welcome the hon. Gentleman's action, which has been a major advance, might I remind him that the Prime Minister has not shown sufficient regard to the advantage we get from our Civil Service in terms of its incorruptibility, dedication and loyalty? If she were to make such a statement—it is conventional— would that not facilitate a much more easy move towards the open structure which the hon. Gentleman is ardently pursuing?

Mr. Hayhoe

I am grateful for what the right hon. Gentleman said about the extension of unified grading. I strongly support the move and I welcome his encouragement of it. It is worth bearing in mind that the Fulton report was made at the end of the 1960s and that the only steps to implement unified grading have been taken by a Conservative Government in 1972 and another Conservative Government in 1983. Moreover, the next step will also be taken by a Conservative Government.

Mr. Forman

Although I welcome the progress towards unified grading that has been made during the Government's term of office, especially as a means of removing some of the discrimination against scientific and technical staff, can my hon. Friend say whether it might also lead to fewer grades at higher levels of the Civil Service?

Mr. Hayhoe

Yes, it will. Although I do not accept my hon. Friend's suggestion that there has been discrimination against scientific and tecnical staff, I believe that such staff especially welcome the move to unified grading. If it can be extended down to the principal level, a further 12,000 civil servants who are spread over about 100 grades will be included. That would be a considerable advance.

Mr. Skinner

The Minister has allied himself with the rest of the Government in setting up costly inquiries into leaks, as with the Daily Mirror last week. Would it not be a better idea, in view of that and other leaks from the Government, to set up some form of incentive scheme so that leaks can be made properly when they are in the national interest?

Mr. Hayhoe

I would not have expected the hon. Gentleman to support civil servants abiding by their terms and conditions of employment. It would have been better if he had remained silent and given no encouragement to the small minority who misuse their position by leaking such documents.

Mr. Rowe

As many people who are now coming into the Civil Service have qualifications befitting a grade well above that at which they now enter, when my hon. Friend examines structures will he bear in mind that it should be made easier for people who show that they are qualified to move up the structure than has been the case so far?

Mr. Hayhoe

My hon. Friend has identified a real and important problem. I assure him that the matter is being given attention.