HC Deb 11 June 1984 vol 61 cc636-8
34. Mr. Parry

asked the Minister for the Civil Service what matters were discussed at his last meeting with the Civil Service unions.

The Minister of State, Treasury (Mr. Barney Hayhoe)

I had a meeting last Tuesday with representatives of the Council of Civil Service Unions about the pay of higher civil servants.

Mr. Parry

When will the Minister for the Civil Service involve himself in the strike at the Department of Health and Social Security in Newcastle? Is it not disgraceful that civil servants are to lose £42 a month in take-home pay and that night-shift working is to be imposed on them against their will? Are not the workers to be congratulated on the fact that their action is not interfering with the payment of benefits to pensioners and others?

Mr. Hayhoe

The action being taken by members of the Society of Civil and Public Servants and the Civil and Public Servants Association at the DHSS in Newcastle is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services. I strongly deprecate the action and the damage that it is doing to those who rely upon the prompt and efficient payment of benefit.

Mr. Janner

Has the Minister discussed with the Civil Service unions the Government's total failure to introduce ethnic monitoring into any of their Departments or organisations, in accordance with the code of the Commission for Racial Equality which came into force on 1 April this year? If not, will he now do so, in the interests of good race relations?

Mr. Hayhoe

If the Council of Civil Service Unions wishes to discuss this matter with me or my noble Friend, I am sure that the necessary arrangements can be made.

Mr. Campbell-Savours

Why should civil servants accept a pay settlement that is less than that paid, on average, to others within the public sector?

Mr. Hayhoe

I believe that the offer made to the non-industrial civil servants is fair and reasonable, and I hope that, on reflection, they will decide that that is so, and accept it.

Mr. Dormand

Most members of the Civil Service unions can hardly wait to be transferred to the northern region, because of the obvious attractions of that area. However, not a single Civil Service job has been transferred there since May 1979 when the Government took office. Why does not the Minister discuss this matter with the Civil Service unions and give them something for which they are asking?

Mr. Hayhoe

The matters that I discuss with the Civil Service unions are largely those that are suggested by them. That matter is not one that the unions have asked to raise with me.

Mr. Dalyell

How seriously do the Government take the recent ruling by the International Labour Organisation at Geneva that they have mistreated their own employees at Government Communications Headquarters at Cheltenham? Do the Government propose simply to flout that decision? If not, what do they propose to do? Do they take the decision seriously, or not?

Mr. Hayhoe

The decision and opinion expressed by the ILO is primarily a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment.

Dr. McDonald

Since the Government's action has been ruled by the ILO to be in clear breach of convention 87 on freedom of association, will the Minister undertake that the Government will reopen negotiations, in order to secure both continuity of service and the restoration of basic trade union rights to employees at GCHQ?

Mr. Hayhoe

I am not sure that there is much point in reopening negotiations, as two of the major Civil Service unions concerned — the Society of Civil and Public Servants and the Civil and Public Servants Association —censured their executives at their annual conferences for the action that the executives took. The unions also asked for a withdrawal from the obligations into which their unions were prepared to enter.

Mr. Soames

When my hon. Friend next meets the Civil Service unions, will he tell them that the Government will pursue with the utmost rigour of the law anyone who is found leaking Government security documents?

Mr. Hayhoe

The Civil Service unions and the Civil Service generally are well aware of that situation.

Mr. Dalyell

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's reply, I give notice that I shall seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.