Staffing Arrangements (Hansard, 2 July 1984)

§ 33. Mr. Campbell-Savours
asked the Minister for the Civil Service what representations he has received on staffing arrangements in the Civil Service.

§ Mr. Hayhoe
I regularly receive comments and views on matters affecting the staffing of the Civil Service.

§ Mr. Campbell-Savours
Now that there is clear evidence that the Government are losing some of their most brilliant people from the Treasury, what does the Minister intend to do to stop this outflow of people who are necessary for government?

§ Mr. Hayhoe
It is good that there should be a flow two ways, both of people coming into the Civil Service with experience of commerce and industry, and of people leaving the Civil Service and going to commerce and industry. With regard to career prospects for the high fliers in the Treasury and elsewhere, if that is what the hon. Gentleman has in mind, I can assure him that careful attention is being given to career planning and training opportunities for them.

§ Mr. Forman
What representations has my hon. Friend received from civil servants in the Customs and Excise Department, particularly in relation to the possibility that there might not be enough of them at the sharp end to deal with the serious drug importation problem?

§ Mr. Hayhoe
The union concerned has certainly made representations, put forward a paper, and claimed for 500 additional Customs and Excise staff. The matter is being carefully considered. Sixty additional staff have been 16 allocated this year to enhance preventive controls. I pay tribute to the remarkable success rate of the Customs and Excise in seizing heroin. Five times as much heroin was seized last year as five years ago.

§ Mr. Wallace
Does the Minister agree that unless there is a substantial increase in staffing in Customs and Excise to tackle the growing problem of drug smuggling, much of the other work done by the Minister's right hon. and hon. Friends to control drug abuse will be seriously undermined?

§ Mr. Hayhoe
I do not accept the hon. Gentleman's claim. The numbers involved in the special investigation branch to deal with drugs have been increased significantly in recent years. The record of Customs and Excise on this issue is very good. The advice that comes to me is that the capabilities of our Customs and Excise compare favourably with those of other countries in the world.

§ Mr. Maxwell-Hyslop
Since the success rate is the ratio of detection to total imports, how does my hon. Friend know what the rate of total imports of drugs is, so that he can express his satisfaction with the proportion of detections to total imports?

§ Mr. Hayhoe
I work on the advice of the professional managers of Customs and Excise, who I think will be regarded all round the world, certainly within the House, as having great expertise. On that advice, I make the assertion to the House that we are not complacent about this matter. The new committee under my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, which was recently announced, makes that clear. The Customs effort is being kept under review and, as I said, 60 extra staff have been allocated for this year.

§ Dr. McDonald
Is not the Government's reply entirely complacent, in view of the epidemic proportions of heroin addiction, when a fix is available on the street at £5? Does the Minister admit that the Government are partly responsible for the situation because they have axed 600 staff from the "sharp end" of baggage control since 1979? Is he aware that the Civil Service unions have asked for 500 extra staff at that level and that the 60 staff of whom he is so proud are concerned not with baggage control but with investigative activities? Does he appreciate that, however important those investigative activities may be, heroin smugglers know that they can bring in heroin in baggage at airports and ports without any serious difficulty? Is it not time that the Government faced their responsibilities?

§ Mr. Hayhoe
The hon. Lady seems to be arguing in favour of the static, predictable, uniformed staff checks of the past, whereas far greater emphasis is now placed on mobile and flexible controls at ports and airports, targeting mobile teams on high-risk areas. The great improvement in the seizing of drugs is a tribute to those staff and to the new and highly professional techniques that they use. We do not want a return to large numbers of uniformed staff making predictable checks on people coming in.

§ Mr. Campbell-Savours
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the totally unsatisfactory nature of the whole series of replies from the Minister, I shall wish to raise the matter on the Adjournment.