Local Authority Associations (Hansard, 8 February 1984)

§ 14. Mr. Cowans
asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he next proposes to meet representatives of the English local authority associations.

§ Mr. Gow
My right hon. Friend expects to meet the local authority associations — [Interruption.] — at the Consultative Committee on Local Government Finance — [Interruption.] — in the spring and at the Housing Consultative Committee — [Interruption.] — in early summer.

§ Mr. Cowans
I did not hear the answer, Mr. Speaker. Perhaps it can be repeated.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I hope that hon. Members below the Gangway will conduct their conversations outside the Chamber.

§ Mr. Gow
My right hon. Friend expects to meet the local authority associations at the Consultative Committee on Local Government Finance in the spring and at the Housing Consultative Committee in early summer.

§ Mr. Cowans
I am grateful to the Minister for his reply. The Secretary of State and Ministers allege that savings of £120 million will be achieved following the abolition of the metropolitan authorities, but they do not say where or how those savings will be made, whether through loss of jobs or otherwise. When the Minister next meets the local authority associations, will he at least tell them, although he will not spell it out to the House, how those savings of £120 million will be made?

§ Mr. Gow
I believe that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will have an interesting discussion on that topic when next he meets local authority association representatives. However, we shall be able to vindicate the estimated savings to the House and the country only when the Bill reaches the statute book and is in operation.

§ Mr. Hickmet
Will my hon. Friend inform the Secretary of State that, when next he meets representatives of the metropolitan authorities, many of them will be deeply disappointed that although the metropolitan authorities, the Inner London education authority and the GLC are about to be abolished — which is to be applauded—no proposals have been made for the future of the counties of Humberside and Avon? The then Secretary of State gave a commitment in 1974 that the 876 position of Humberside county would be reviewed 10 years after its creation. Will my hon. Friend give a commitment about when a review will take place?

§ Mr. Gow
I cannot give my hon. Friend the assurance that he seeks.

§ Mr. Tony Banks
How many of the representatives of local authorities have expressed support for the Government's proposals outlined in Cmnd. No.9063, "Streamlining the Cities", and how many representations has the Minister received in favour of the proposals in that paper?

§ Mr. Gow
Not as many as I would have wished. I expect the number of those who support our proposals to increase as time proceeds.

§ Mr. Squire
Will my hon. Friend ask the Secretary of State to confirm to the local authority associations at their next meeting that, despite the difficulties over legislating for reform of local authority finance, the Government not only agree on the need to broaden the base, but are in general agreement about the way in which that reform should go?

§ Mr. Gow
My hon. Friend should not exaggerate the difficulties. This Government will overcome all difficulties.

§ Mr. Wrigglesworth
Will the Minister discuss with the local authority associations the need for a rating revaluation, something that is now long overdue? Is the Minister aware that local authority associations and local councillors are very much aware of the anomalies suffered by many ratepayers because revaluation has not taken place? Will there be an early announcement about revaluation?

§ Mr. Gow
I have nothing to add to what my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State told the House earlier this afternoon.

§ Mr. Beaumont-Dark
Does my hon. Friend accept that it saddens many of us to say that the local authority associations are likely to agree with many of us that the present policy is born out of panic and despair and does not stem from a genuine wish to reform local authority finance? Does not my hon. Friend accept that the current system is not able to bear the strains that it must bear and that, unless we are willing to do what we said we would do in 1974 and in 1979 and reform the system, we shall lose all credibility when stating our belief in local authority democracy?

§ Mr. Gow
Panic and despair are not the characteristics of my right hon. Friend. It is legitimate to remind my hon. Friend of the commitment made in the Conservative party's manifesto. The Rates Bill is a specific and detailed implementation of that commitment.

§ Mr. Straw
I return to the alleged £120 million saving from the abolition of the GLC and the metropolitan counties, which the Minister says he will discuss with the local authority associations. Is the Minister aware that that claim of a saving has already been made in an official ministerial document dished out in the Conservative Whips' Office? Given that that rough estimate has already been arrived at, why does the Minister consistently refuse to give details of how it has been calculated? Is it because the figure has been fabricated? If not, why is there the refusal to give the House the information that it deserves?

§ Mr. Gow
I commend to the hon. Gentleman the document provided by the Whips' Office. If it was provided by the Office of the Patronage Secretary, it will be well worth studying.