§ The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. George Younger)With permission, Mr. Speaker, I wish to make a statement about secondary education in Scotland.
One of my main concerns since coming into office has been to advance a development programme designed to introduce radical new arrangements for the curriculum and assessment of all 14 to 16-year-olds at school in Scotland, building on the recommendations of the Munn and Dunning reports published in 1977. I gave full details of our programme in response to my hon. Friend the Member for Argyll (Mr. MacKay) on 31 March 1980
I am glad to have this opportunity to pay tribute to the sterling efforts of all those who have taken on the burden of the development work since then and who have ensured the success of the programme. The results of their work were fully reported in the consultative paper "The Munn and Dunning Reports: Framework for Decision", which I published in September last year. I received several hundred comments upon that paper and I am very grateful for the time and thought which was put into them. The respondents overwhelmingly supported the principle of the introduction of the arrangements proposed in the paper. I have considered their comments and I have decided to implement the new system along the following lines.
I believe that the eight modes of study proposed by the Munn committee provide a curriculum framework which all schools should adopt, taking account of the particular needs of each school and its pupils. Within this framework all pupils should study English, mathematics and science, and there will be considerable scope for pupil choice of other subjects. I accept the Dunning committee's proposal for one certificate for all pupils based on the three levels of syllabus of foundation, general and credit. Pupils will be assessed against performance standards related to the syllabuses they are studying. Practical skills will be assessed internally at all levels where appropriate and internal assessment will also be used for other aspects of the syllabus of the new foundation level courses. In the light of further experience of the use of internal assessment for certification purposes, I shall at a later date review the place of internal assessment in relation to all three syllabus levels. My aim in any such review will be to maintain and indeed raise standards at all levels.
My consultative paper last autumn set out a four-year implementation programme covering most of the subjects in the school curriculum. Several respondents commented that this was too slow. In view of this evident enthusiasm to proceed more quickly and in order to minimise the transitional period, I have therefore decided to implement the new system in three years rather than four. This will be done by bringing into the third year of the programme all those subjects originally planned for the fourth. In addition to these changes, I have decided to introduce German at all three syllabus levels and to introduce Italian, Russian and Spanish at general and credit levels in the third year.
One important aspect of implementation is the resources available to support the programme. In the consultative paper we stated that the implementation programme and other priority calls on staffing could be carried out with overall national staffing about 4 to 5 per cent. over the basic levels set out in what is familiarly 668 known as the red book. I remain of the view that staffing at about this level will be sufficient once the implementation programme has been completed. Nevertheless, I recognise that there will be an extra burden upon teachers during the transitional period, particularly now that we have speeded up the programme. I intend therefore to provide for staffing of about 5 to 6 per cent. over red book levels, excluding the probationer allowance, during the implementation period. I shall also be willing to consider applications by education authorities for reductions in the secondary school year in-service training and syllabus development related to implementation. We will continue to support the programme through secondments of development officers, which have been very successful in previous work.
The comments I received from bodies representing parents emphasised the need to ensure that parents fully understand and are fully consulted about the new arrangements. I appreciate the anxieties which parents will have, particularly if their children are in the third and fourth years of secondary education during the implementation period. The new arrangements will be widely publicised and explained to parents, children and employers.
Details of our plans are set out in a circular which my Department is sending to education authorities today, copies of which have been placed in the Library. I hope to make further announcements in the course of the summer.
The Munn and Dunning committees recommended major changes in secondary education. Our plans offer all pupils for the first time a common curriculum structure and courses suitable for all levels of ability leading to a single certificate for all. The implementation programme is a major undertaking and I do not underestimate the heavy burden of work still to be done, but I am confident from the comments I have received that all involved are anxious to set about the task and will ensure that it will succeed. Together with the programme recently announced in "16–18s in Scotland: An Action Plan", this reform will bring about major improvements in the education of all young people in Scotland.
§ Mr. Bruce Millan (Glasgow, Craigton)The Secretary of State has made an important statement, but not all its details are clear. I make no particular complaint about that, because we are dealing with a complex subject. Nevertheless, we shall want to debate the statement and its implications.
I join the Secretary of State in paying tribute to the hard work which many people have put into the various studies and so on that have been carried out during the past few years in relation to Munn and Dunning. I am particularly happy about the success of the work done on foundation courses. I attached particular importance to that, and—to be fair—the present Government have also done so. However, we are not very happy about certain aspects of what has happened in the past few years and a Labour Government would want to review the whole of the programme that the Secretary of State has announced today.
There is a considerable danger, particularly if adequate resources are not made available—and judging by the statement they will not be—that we shall have three separate syllabuses in our secondary schools and three separate and different levels of examination, and 669 therefore, there is a danger that we shall re-establish something like a three-tier system within the comprehensive structure. The dangers of that worry us more than anything else.
Will the Secretary of State say something more about the three syllabuses? Are there to be syllabuses each with different contents, or, alternatively, are they to be basically common syllabuses aiming for different levels of attainment and with different emphasis placed on them, or are they to be something in between? Will the right hon. Gentleman say something about the overlap between one syllabus and the other? The Under-Secretary of State has in recent years attached more importance to differentiation than to overlap, but overlap is much more important, particularly if pupils are to be able to transfer from one course to another. In that context, perhaps the Secretary of State would confirm that he intends that an individual pupil should be able to take different subjects at different levels, with different examination prospects in mind.
On the subject of examinations, is it not a misnomer to talk about assessment for all, in the sense that that means that every pupil leaving school will have some kind of certificate? Some pupils will not do so, and if one accepts the importance of certificates, they will be even more disadvantaged than those who at present do not have certificates. Moreover, I doubt whether a certificate that says "course completed" will prove to be of much value to pupils who obtain it at the end of their school career.
Is there not a difference between a foundation course that is good for the motivation of pupils taking it, and the argument that because the course is good for motivation the examination will be equally good for motivation? Is it not true that what damages motivation more than anything else in schools at present is the appalling amount of youth unemployment, and that until we do something about that, all these problems of motivation are basically insoluble?
There are many other matters to which we shall want to return in the debate, such as internal assessment, the relationship between foundation examinations and general examinations on the one hand, and between the general and credit levels on the other hand, and the relationship between these proposals today and what is proposed for the 16 to 18 age group.
May I ask the Secretary of State a question about resources? Does he accept that what he said today is completely phoney? He said that at teacher level he will provide for red book standards plus 5 to 6 per cent. in total. Is it not true that at present, according to his own statistical bulletin, the education authority schools in Scotland already employ red book standards plus 5.8 per cent? Thus, what the right hon. Gentleman now recommends would be a reduction in the existing standards in secondary schools in Scotland. Indeed, it is far less than the improvement that will be required if the programme that he has set out is to have any prospect of achievement.
Finally, unless the resources are provided in schools—clearly the Secretary of State does not intend to provide them—the whole programme will be completely hamstrung, and we shall end up with an education system, in terms of both courses and examinations, which will represent a deterioration of the present arrangements, instead of the improvement that we all want.
§ Mr. YoungerI thank the right hon. Gentleman for what he said at the beginning of his remarks, and I am glad 670 that he paid tribute to the many people whose work led to these changes, not least Principal Dunning and Dr. Munn, who started the process during the time when the right hon. Gentleman was in office. Of course, the right hon. Gentleman has the right to decide to review the programme, but perhaps he will forgive me for saying that by the time he comes into office the programme will have been running for many years, so possibly it will be ready for review by that time.
The right hon. Gentleman's questions about syllabus levels are best answered by explaining a little more clearly what the system involves. Basically, in future any pupil will be able to take any of these subjects at any of the three levels. Each pupil will be able to build up a programme, or course, for himself which may include a number of different subjects at different levels. A pupil will generally take not a particular level of course but a course that is suitable for his wishes and abilities, which may be very different. That answers the right hon. Gentleman's question in part. I confirm that pupils will take different subjects at different levels.
That leads to the question about the certificate for all. After the reforms have come fully into effect, it will still be possible for pupils to leave school with no certificate, if they fail to satisfy any level in any subject of these exams. That is possible, and no doubt a few pupils will leave school without certificates. However, this programme gives pupils of all abilities a wide opportunity to undertake a course in which they can produce a fair result. That is the great advantage of the new system over the present arrangements, in which there is not enough flexibility for pupils who have different abilities in different subjects. So I think that the vast majority of pupils will leave school with a certificate after this reform is complete.
I accept what the right hon. Gentleman said about examinations as a motivation. However, pupils must have a goal to achieve if they are to feel rewarded and motivated to undertake courses at any level. Therefore, I do not agree with the right hon. Gentleman if he is suggesting—I am not sure whether he did—that the whole idea of an exam at the end of these courses is wrong. I do not agree with that. There will be a proper examination of these courses, and pupils will have to satisfy that examination if they are to be clearly recorded as having completed the course satisfactorily.
Finally, what the right hon. Gentleman said about resources is not correct. At present, we allow about 4 to 5 per cent. above so-called red book standards as standards in the provision for school education. We did this in recent years because this reform was on the way, building up to implementaton, which I hope is now about to begin. We are now adding to that in two ways. First, I have agreed, notwithstanding that, to raise this provision to between 5 and 6 per cent. above red book standards. Secondly, as the right hon. Gentleman may have noticed in my statement, I am prepared to consider requests from authorities for a reduction in the number of days in the school year to ease the implementation period. In fact, a reduction of one day in the school year is equivalent to an increase of about 0.5 per cent. in the provision above red book standards. So there is a real increase in resources, albeit fairly modest, to help to deal with this situation, and I am sure that it will be successful.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I remind the House that we are not debating this matter today. Any hon. Member that I call should seek further illumination on this statement. Any other debate will be on another occasion.
§ Mr. Michael Ancram (Edinburgh, South)Does my right hon. Friend realise that, despite the expected ideological objections from the Opposition, his scheme will be warmly welcomed in Scotland as a bold and imaginative advance in secondary education? Will he, however, understand the importance of keeping parents informed, since the most likely factor to undermine the parental involvement that we have created in our legislation during the past three years is a system that parents do not adequately understand?
§ Mr. YoungerI agree with my hon. Friend. This is an extremely important advance in secondary education, and it will transform the position for all pupils in future. We expect a major exercise in making sure that both parents and pupils are fully informed about what is available.
§ Mr. J. Grimond (Orkney and Shetland)Will the Secretary of State say a further word about history? I take it that there is no intention of downgrading the teaching of history, and that it will still be an important part of secondary education. Also, there is the matter of writing essays. Some teachers are worried that it is to be discounted.
§ Mr. YoungerNo, there is no intention to change the priority of history or, indeed, of any other subject. I cannot remember whether it comes in the first or second year, but it is well to the fore. I appreciate what the right hon. Gentleman says about the writing of essays. Possibly the fact that English is firmly included as one of the foundation subjects is as good a guarantee of that as one could get.
§ Mr. George Foulkes (South Ayrshire)Is it really wise to announce such a fundamental change in Scottish education so soon before a change in Government? Does the Secretary of State agree that two essentials in the success of any change are, first, adequate resources and, second, not just an understanding but an acceptance of the new system by employers and parents? Does he accept that many authorities already have better than red book standards? So he is not announcing anything new for most authorities. Will he tell us what he will do to ensure that employers and parents understand and accept the new system rather than are just made aware of it?
§ Mr. YoungerAs for acceptance of the system, the vast majority of the comments that we have had upon the proposals which we circulated have been strongly in favour of them. Indeed, a large number of the representations we received urged us to implement the changes more quickly and, as I have said today, that we are now able to do. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that acceptance of this by everyone—teachers, parents and everybody else—is exceedingly important. If we all put a great deal of effort into making sure that everyone is well informed that will be achieved. There is at present an excess over red book standards provided not only by the Government but even more so by some local authorities. None of this removes the need for local authorities to use in the most economic way they can the teachers that they have available. That is something that some of the 672 authorities have not yet got down to. This announcement does not alter that. It means that extra resources will be given.
On the desirability of making this announcement before a change of Government, I do not think the hon. Gentleman and I expect the same change to take place. The change that I would expect some time within the next 18 months will make no difference whatever to this policy.
§ Sir Hector Monro (Dumfries)I congratulate my right hon. Friend on a most important statement on Scottish education which will keep it in the van in the United Kingdom for years to come. Will he give two assurances: first, that financial resources will be available for any additional changes required and, secondly, that the consultations with parents will be meaningful and will not be carried out in the same way as some of the consultations relative to school closures in recent years?
§ Mr. YoungerI agree with my hon. Friend, and I am most grateful to him for the welcome he expressed to these most important changes. The extra resources that we are making available will enable changes to be made, no doubt with much extra work for many people as a result. We shall review the matter and make sure that there continue to be adequate resources. Finally, I entirely agree with my hon. Friend that much effort will need to be put into explaining the changes to make sure that everyone is fully aware of them.
§ Mr. Tam Dalyell (West Lothian)In relation to the point in his opening statement about third year Spanish, has the Minister received the recommendations from the Heriot-Watt department of linguistics about the teaching of Spanish in Scottish schools, bearing in mind that in my constituency the only teacher of Spanish, Ian Grant, is frantically having to learn German to remain qualified for an acceptable subject? In the light of what the Secretary of State has said, where will the resources come form?
§ Mr. YoungerWe have indeed had quite a number of representations about the shortage of teachers in some subjects, one of them being, I think, the subject mentioned by the hon. Gentleman. This is a long-standing problem. We will do all that we can to put right such shortages. As for the changes, it is a matter of adapting the teachers we have to a new system of teaching. That is what everyone will concentrate upon.
§ Mr. Robert Maclennan (Caithness and Sutherland)Does the Secretary of State accept that the success of this upheaval in Scottish education will depend crucially on the ability of the teachers in the classrooms to give effect to its purposes and that the resources will have to be considerably greater than he has envisaged? Would he care to put a cash figure on the additional resources that he would expect to be made available in the first year of implementation?
§ Mr. YoungerI would not, without notice, give a precise cash figure. I think that I have made it clear that real extra resources are being made available. In particular, the ability of local education authorities to apply for a reduction in the school year represents a considerable amount of extra resources if the time saved is used to good effect in bringing the programme to fruition.
§ Mr. Barry Henderson (Fife, East)Is my right hon. Friend aware that his statement will be widely and warmly 673 welcomed, assuming that he will continue to provide more money per pupil and better pupil-teacher ratios? Does he accept that this is important not only for the improvement of the quality of education in Scotland but for the way in which it will tackle one of the root problems of youth unemployment? Will he ensure that employers understand that the certificates that will be issued will be of value, which I do not think all of them fully appreciate?
§ Mr. YoungerI am sure that those in education in Scotland will welcome the changes. Pupil-teacher ratios are at the best level ever. I agree with my hon. Friend about making sure that the changes are understood. I should also have made it clear that it is equally important that the changes should he known to employers as well as to teachers and pupils.
§ Mr. Dick Douglas (Dunfermline)Will the Secretary of State address himself to the Red Book figures and the spurious point that he is making about the provision being in excess of the Red Book figures? Will he give the range for Scotland, not the average figure? Will local authorities that require additional resources, because, one hopes of the relationship with expanding industry, be given the resources? Additionally, will he give an assurance that the incentives that the reform provides for pupils will not be dissipated into disillusionment because no jobs are available for them at the end of the day?
§ Mr. YoungerI appreciate the points that the hon. Gentleman is making, but the resources that are being made available are additional to what we have already provided. There may be people who would like to see even more resources made available, but there is a considerable amount of extra resources here which can be made use of. As for motivation, which is I think the hon. Gentleman's latter point, it is true that it is depressing for young people if they cannot get jobs when they leave school or university. These changes are a major step towards equipping young people more effectively to be able to take up jobs when they leave school. That is surely to be welcomed by everybody.
§ Mr. Bill Walker (Perth and East Perthshire)Does my right hon. Friend agree that there is nothing phoney about courses that equip young people for the world as it really is? The practical skills element in the new courses is of value. The important thing to recognise is that many children are not as academically inclined as schools might wish; consequently they are not motivated when they are at school. If the practical element is accepted outside by industry, employers and parent, it will be very welcome to those who matter—the children.
§ Mr. YoungerOne of the great difficulties that we try to surmount is that the examination system is beyond the abilities of a depressingly large number of pupils. Because of the change, a much larger number of pupils will find that examinations are within their abilities because they can tailor the subjects and syllabus to the level that they are competent to reach. This should lead to more better qualified children leaving our schools.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I propose to call the three hon. Members who have been standing and then the Front Bench to conclude.
§ Mr. Norman Hogg (Dunbartonshire, East)Returning to the questions put by the hon. Member for Edinburgh, 674 South (Mr. Ancram), will the Secretary of State give an undertaking that he will encourage local authorities to meet the school councils and the parent-teacher associations to publicise and explain the complex matters to which he has referred? Will he at the same time join me in deploring the absence of the Scottish National party from the Chamber on an occasion when an important statement is being made on Scottish education?
§ Mr. YoungerI note the hon. Gentleman's point. I would not have thought that there was anything unusual about the absence of the Scottish National party from Scottish debates.
I agree with the hon. Gentleman on the first point. I hope that local education authorities and officials will make a special point of meeting school councils and other bodies to make the changes more widely known.
§ Mr. Dennis Canavan (West Stirlingshire)Will the Secretary of State give an absolute guarantee that maximum freedom of choice will be given to parents and pupils on course choice instead of pupils being subjected to premature selection and rejection, which would be a denial of equality of opportunity of education? On the matter of resources, in view of the fact that hundreds of young qualified teachers in Scotland are in the dole queue when their skills could be used to teach pupils in third, fourth and further years in secondary schools, is this not a terrible indictment of a Tory regime headed by a guiser of a Secretary of a State for Scotland who is a product of the English public school system at Winchester?
§ Mr. YoungerI am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his graceful compliment to my schooling achievements—which were modest indeed, as he would no doubt agree. I note his new role as a champion of freedom of choice—not something that I had associated with him in the past.
On the serious point that the hon. Gentleman raised, I assure him that having three different levels of course in each subject will give each pupil a more flexible way to build up a course suitable for him or her. I hope very much that that will mean that many more pupils can undertake examinations that will be of benefit to them.
§ Mr. CanavanWhat about the teachers on the dole?
§ Mr. YoungerThere is some provision for additional teachers, which will no doubt be welcome.
§ Mr. Tom Clarke (Coatbridge and Airdrie)Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this may be the last question today, but that it is by no means the last question on this issue? Will he assure the House that among the resources that he intend to allocate there is provision for educational technology, such as micro and computer development, so that our educational system will have some relevance to the industrial world that the youngsters will have to face?
§ Mr. YoungerYou will agree, Mr. Speaker, that it is not for me to decide whether this is the last question. However, I note the hon. Gentleman's remarks. I agree about the necessity of bearing in mind the subjects that he mentioned, and especially computer science. As you know, it is a relatively new development that the subject is being examined at O-level. We are considering the possibility of bringing it into the new system as soon as possible.
Mr. MilianOn resources, and especially teachers, will the Secretary of State confirm what he must know to 675 be true—it was contained in his statistical bulletin published in January—that currently the teachers in Scottish secondary schools are red book plus 6.7 per cent? That is a correction to my earlier figure of 5.8 per cent. Therefore, if the education authorities were to employ only teachers in secondary schools on the levels outlined in the statement, far from increasing the number of teachers, they would have to reduce them.
§ Mr. YoungerThe right hon. Gentleman is quite correct that a number of authorities employ more teachers than is laid down in the red book standards, or red book standards plus 4 to 5 per cent. as laid down by the Government. I have been pressing those authorities for some time to use their resources more effectively. They are over-supplied with teachers. Nothing that has been said this afternoon alters the need for local education authorities to use their teachers more effectively and to bring them within the resources that they can afford. However, the provisions that the Government can make—that is the basis of all that the authorities do, and if they employ more staff, they must provide for that—will be increased. An additional amount may be available if local authorities wish to apply for it in a reduction in the number of days in the school year during the implementation period.
Those are real gestures towards the undoubted amount of additional work that teachers will have to do to implement these exciting new changes. These are important changes and a major step in Scottish education. It is clear from our consultations that the vast majority of the teaching profession is thoroughly enthusiastic about the changes, and will make them work well.