Arts Council (Hansard, 11 April 1983)

§ 22. Mr. Proctor
asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what was the total cost of salaries and expenses of the Arts Council in each of the past three years.

§ Mr. Channon
The council's total operating expenses throughout Great Britain were £3.9 million in 1980–81, £4.4 million in 1981–82 and an estimated £4.9 million for 1982–83. The cost of wages and salaries alone was £2.1 million in 1980–81, £2.4 million in 1981–82 and an estimated £2.7 million for 1982–83.

§ Mr. Proctor
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that information. Will he examine the administration of the Arts Council in the light of the public concern about certain peculiar and perverse grants of public money to different bodies, in particular to political fringe theatre groups? Will he consider setting up a departmental review and inquiry into the workings of the Arts Council?

§ Mr. Channon
With regard to administration, the operating costs of the Arts Council represent only just over 5 per cent. of total expenditure in each of the three years in question, which, compared with many other organisations, is not at all a bad figure. With regard to the second part of my hon. Friend's question, it has long been the tradition under Governments of both political persuasions to observe the arm's length principle, which means that Governments do not intervene in the way the Arts Council allocates the money. I have not heard complaints of the type to which my hon. Friend refers, but if he has any specific complaints perhaps he will be good enough to write to the chairman of the Arts Council or to me about them and I shall willingly have them investigated.

§ Mr. Freud
As the Minister is so satisfied with the level of salary expenditure, might he consider investing in some marketing men for the Arts Council?

§ Mr. Channon
The Arts Council has that very much in mind. The hon. Member for Isle of Ely (Mr. Freud) makes a valuable point to which I shall draw its attention.

§ Mr. Beaumont-Dark
With regard to the point made by the hon. Member for Isle of Ely (Mr. Freud), does my right hon. Friend agree that, if the Arts Council conducted a marketing survey, it would find that the arts need more and more subsidies because the council puts on more plays, music and arts exhibitions which the people for whom they are meant do not want? Is it not time that we catered for the needs of people who actually pay the taxes?

§ Mr. Channon
With respect to my hon. Friend, that is a one-sided point of view. I find that the audiences for theatres and other activities in the performing arts continue to rise. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The box office returns are increasing both in the commercial and the non-commercial theatre and more and more people are going to the theatre. With respect to my hon. Friend, I do not believe that the facts bear out what he has just said.

§ Mr. Whitehead
Does the Minister accept that the Opposition entirely support his reproof of his hon. Friend and his defence of the arm's length principle? It is entirely right that the Arts Council should be master in its own house when deciding which forms of art should be subsidised and in which way. Does he nevertheless agree 546 that there is a case, when this funding is considered, for looking at the imbalance between what the centre receives and what some of the regions receive?

§ Mr. Channon
That matter is continually being reviewed by the Arts Council and the trend is clearly towards more money going to the regions—a view that the House generally shares. I should not wish it to be taken from what the hon. Member said that I in any way wish to reprove any of my hon. Friends, who are perfectly entitled to put their point of view, which happens to be one with which I do not agree. Nevertheless, they are perfectly entitled to put it.