HC Deb 27 October 1982 vol 29 cc1028-30
9. Mr. Walter Johnson

asked the Secretary of State for Transport when he expects to announce approval of plans for further electrification and modernisation of the railways; and if he will make a statement.

10. Mr. Snape

asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he has received from the chairman of the British Railways Board any application for the authorisation of further electrification programmes.

Mr. David Howell

I am currently considering the British Railways Board's proposed 10-year programme of main line electrification, and its request for approval in principle to electrify the east coast main line to Leeds and to Newcastle. I shall announce decisions on those proposals as soon as possible.

Mr. Johnson

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a better atmosphere now between the management of British Rail and the rail unions? Is it not time to capitalise on that by drawing everybody together—the Minister is the only one who can do that—to discuss future electrification, modernisation and productivity and all the other problems of the railways? I suggest that there is an opportunity for the Minister to arrange such a meeting. He and I know the importance of an efficient railway system.

Mr. Howell

I accept that there are signs of progress in British Rail. There is a need to settle the outstanding productivity matters, to get more investment and to generate the funds for that investment. I mentioned earlier the regrettable losses sustained due to the strikes earlier in the year.

It is not only public funds that can be a source of investment in British Rail. Indeed, British Rail has decided to investigate the idea of private capital investment in a separate Victoria-Gatwick service. We can look to a number of sources for improved investment in British Rail.

Mr. Snape

How long have the specific proposals for the electrification of the Hitchin-Huntingdon line been on the right hon. Gentleman's desk? When does he intend to shake off that air of languid disinterest and do something about the railways industry and investment before the industry crumbles entirely?

Mr. Howell

That is a major business investment, which must be judged on its merits. British Rail's planning assumptions have changed, and it is necessary to have the right plans for the future of the inter-city train business—of which electrification is a vital part—before a decision is made.

Mr. Snape

How long has the right hon. Gentleman had it?

Mr. Howell

The original proposals were put forward in the early summer. British Rail's new figures have still to reach me.

Mr. Higgins

We would all like to see more profitable investment. Does my right hon. Friend agree that it would be wrong to go ahead with further investment until the new productivity agreements—including the St. Pancras line—are seen to be operating?

Mr. Howell

New investment must be judged on its merit as a business proposition. At the same time, it is essential that existing productivity agreements are delivered and existing investment works properly. The fact that the Bedford-St. Pancras trains are not operating is a poor advertisement for investment in new equipment in British Rail.

Mr. Geraint Howells

Will the Minister have good news for the people of Wales when the electrification plans are announced? Has he plans to modernise any of the railways in Wales?

Mr. Howell

Detailed plans for investment and modernisation are for British Rail. The hon. Gentleman should question the chairman of British Rail about those plans. I have said more than once this afternoon that I should like to see further investment in British Rail. A large proportion of the substantial social grant given to British Rail is put aside specifically for new investment in track, maintenance and signalling.

Mr. Cockeram

Before putting more taxpayers' money into British Rail, will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that subsidies to British Rail approach £1,000 million per annum, which is in marked contrast to the £690 million invested in roads announced earlier by my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State, and the majority of freight and passenger transport is by road.

Mr. Howell

I never cease to bear in mind the enormous sums of money involved.

Mr. Robert Hughes

The electrification report has been with the right hon. Gentleman's Department for many years and there is a strong argument for increasing investment to boost the number of passengers on the railways. Is the Secretary of State trying to get into the "Guinness Book of Records" as the Minister who takes the longest time possible to make up his mind on an issue?

Mr. Howell

The decisions must be based on British Rail's performance and its determination to generate funds and on the determination by the unions to abandon restrictive practices from another era, to abandon wasteful strikes and to work together for a better railway system. The delay has been caused by the enormous draining away of funds on industrial disputes. We had precious little support from the hon. Gentleman and his right hon. Friends in the summer when those strikes were bleeding British Rail to death.