§ 45. Mr. Campbell-Savoursasked the Attorney-General how many cases of shoplifting over the last six months have been referred to the Director of Public Prosecutions.
§ The Solicitor-GeneralThe Director compiles his records on an annual basis and therefore the figures for the last six months are not available. However, since 1 January 1982, the nearest identifiable date, 26 allegations of shoplifting have been referred to him.
§ Mr. Campbell-SavoursIs it not true that there are many reported cases of persons being charged but not convicted of shoplifting who, under stress, commit suicide? Will the hon. and learned Gentleman review the national policy for prosecutions, particularly in the light of demands that psychiatrists be allowed to intervene before prosecution decisions are taken?
§ The Solicitor-GeneralEvery time a person commits suicide under stress of prosecution of any kind it is a serious and unhappy event. The hon. Gentleman is not right to say that there is a high number of suicides in cases of pending prosecutions for shoplifting. Nor is it right for him to suggest to the House that psychiatric evidence is denied to anybody. In many cases a person does not want the factors to which the hon. Gentleman is referring to come out until the trial or after it.
§ Mr. AdleyMy hon. and learned Friend must know that there has been an increase in such tragic suicides. Does he not accept, as the Home Office does, that the trading methods of self-service stores are largely responsible for the massive increase in shoplifting in the past few years?
§ Sir William ClarkDo not be silly.
§ Mr. AdleyMy hon. Friend the Member for Croydon, South (Sir W. Clark) says "Do not be silly", but I am afraid that what I said is true. When will British law recognise that shoplifting in the modern world is a separate and different crime from ordinary theft?
§ The Solicitor-GeneralI know of my hon. Friend's great interest and concern in this matter, and he knows of mine. It is idle for anybody to suggest that there is a simple substitute for the present system that will solve all the problems. Shoplifting is just another form of theft. It is essential in any prosecution for shoplifting that all the ingredients of theft are established. The most useful course that we can take is to ensure that that is understood in all cases. That will prevent many people pleading guilty when they are not, as is said to happen.
§ Mr. Greville JannerDoes the hon. and learned Gentleman not understand that shoplifting is not the same as any other case of theft, because so many innocent people are charged with it? Does he not recognise the vast danger, particularly at Christmas, of honest but careless people being charged with shoplifting, and of ill and elderly people being so charged when their right place is in hospital, not in the dock?
§ The Solicitor-GeneralThe hon. and learned Gentleman must surely realise after this time that I understand all those factors. I said that the ingredients are the same. One of the complaints that is made is that many people who are not guilty plead guilty, thinking that shoplifting is different from theft and that being found in possession of the goods is enough. I cannot make it sufficiently clear that that is not so.
However, there are a thousand and one different cases for the authorities to cope with. In some cases, ill-health would present a good defence and would even result in there being no prosecution if it were brought to the attention of those concerned in time. The hon. and learned Gentleman shakes his head. A case was referred to the Director of Public Prosecutions, but because the defendant was suffering from ill health proceedings were not taken. We are trying to deal with a thousand and one different cases, and it is idle to suppose that any one system will cope with all of them.
§ Mr. NeubertIs it not time that my right hon. and learned Friend the Attorney-General introduced a better balance in the law to impose greater responsibility on shops and stores, because the merchandising methods of many of them positively invite shoplifting and contribute to their heavy losses, which are then passed on in higher prices to the honest shopper?
§ The Solicitor-GeneralMy hon. Friend will recall that I have previously referred to a study group that was set up by the Ministers responsible for these matters. Yes, those matters need looking into by those who are responsible. We should implement any practical suggestions that might avoid the difficulties to which my hon. Friend referred.
§ Mr. AndersonDoes not public disquiet partly arise from the fact that the decision to prosecute rests with a multiplicity of bodies who may rely on differing criteria? Does the Solicitor-General think that guidelines should be issued to ensure uniformity of prosecution? When will the Home Office working party report, and will that report be made public?
§ The Solicitor-GeneralThere have been questions about guidelines before, and my answer must remain the same. I do not think that any set of guidelines would solve the problems. Nobody has yet put forward a convincing answer to those problems. I cannot give a date when the working party will report, but I shall ensure that the hon. Gentlemen's question is referred to those responsible.
§ Mr. Campbell-SavoursOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the wholly unsatisfactory nature of those replies, both to Labour and Conservative Members, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment as soon as possible.