HC Deb 18 January 1982 vol 16 cc11-3
14. Mr. Delwyn Williams

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what steps he is considering to alleviate the problems of Welsh farmers following the recent severe weather conditions.

Mr. Nicholas Edwards

Recent heavy snow and exceptional weather conditions have caused disruption to normal life in many parts of Wales. Although the position is gradually returning to normal, conditions are still extremely difficult in many places. My agriculture department and its divisional offices have co-operated with the farming unions to do all they can to deal with calls for assistance.

I wish to pay tribute to the local authorities—which have the primary responsibility for dealing with such emergencies—the Armed Forces, the police, the health and social services agencies and many others, including the farmers, who responded so well, and a large number of ordinary people who have kept industry, agriculture and commercial life going.

Mr. Williams

That reply is very nice, and I join my right hon. Friend in everything that he says, but it does not answer the question. What help does he intend to give in this dire emergency? Does he agree that, although farmers must take the rough with the smooth, the present bad weather constitutes an emergency? Is it not the worst weather in living memory, with temperatures 20 deg. Centigrade lower than in 1947? Surely that merits special treatment and compensation.

Mr. Edwards

I do not in any way underestimate the scale of the problems faced by farmers in many parts of Wales. I have seen them for myself. I have discussed the matter in great detail with Sir Richard Butler and representatives of the farmers unions. They agree that the first priority to deal with the emergency is to gain access to the farms and assist in every practical way. Sir Richard shares my belief that we are not yet in a position to assess accurately the consequences to the farmers and reach correct decisions about the way to deal with the emergency.

Farmers are well used to the principle that they must accept the possibility of extremely bad weather. When we have more details of the losses—milk has been thrown away and there have been stock losses—we can examine the position on the basis of information, not speculation.

Mr. Ioan Evans

Is the Secretary of State aware that he is treating both the House and the people shabbily by not making a full statement on the most severe winter weather conditions that the people of south and mid-Wales have ever known? Government policies, with their implications for cash limits for the public industries producing electricity, gas and coal, have led to difficulties. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the financial constraints imposed on local authorities have resulted in severe problems for the elderly, who are living in intolerable conditions without water or electricity? Will he take emergency action as soon as possible to alleviate those problems?

Mr. Edwards

I note that neither the hon. Gentleman nor his colleagues took the trouble to come to the House to table a question—

Mr. Ioan Evans

In the recess?

Mr. Edwards

The hon. Gentleman did not table a question. My hon. Friend—

Mr. Ray Powell

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker

Order, If the hon. Gentleman raises a point of order, it will prevent me from calling another hon. Member.

Mr. Powell

I wish to correct something that the Secretary of State said.

Mr. Speaker

Order. That cannot be a point of order.

Mr. Edwards

My hon. Friend the Member for Barry (Sir R. Gower) took the trouble to come to the House and table a question. I am sorry that he cannot be here today to ask his question as he is ill in bed.

The monstrous suggestion that local authorities or others involved in the emergency held off because they had doubts about the financial arrangements should be repudiated in the strongest possible terms. There is no evidence for that allegation. The local authorities have denied it. The Government were extremely prompt, as soon as they had an assessment, in confirming that the precedent for financial assistance in times of emergency would be followed and that financial support would be given to local authorities. No responsible local authority representative or official in Wales held back because of any fears about financial allocation.

Mr. Geraint Howells

We are all aware that last week's snow storm was the worst since 1947. When the Secretary of State has made a full assessment, will he make a statement on whether he is willing to give financial aid to those in business in Wales, especially to those engaged in agriculture?

Mr. Edwards

It would not be sensible to make a statement about financial assistance when we are not yet able to assess the financial consequences. That is a view that the president of the National Farmers Union shares with me. He telephoned me from West Wales to express gratitude to the Welsh Office and others for the assistance that has been given and confirmed that it was too early to make an assessment. As the situation unfolds I shall consider whether a statement will be appropriate at some stage. I shall consult my colleagues.

Several Hon. Members

rose—

Mr. Speaker

Order. I propose to allow another minute on this question despite the timings on the Order Paper.

Mr. Alec Jones

Does the Secretary of State appreciate that we join him in thanking all the official and unofficial bodies that helped during the exceptional weather? In view of what the right hon. Gentleman has heard this afternoon, may I urge him to make a full statement later this week so that hon. Members and the people of Wales may be satisfied about what has been done? There is no point in confirming what the Government said in 1980 or what the previous Government did in 1978. Very few people in Wales have witnessed before the kind of weather that has been seen in the past fortnight. We deserve and need a far better response than we have had from the right hon. Gentleman.

Mr. Edwards

The right hon. Gentleman says that he deserves a far better response. Responsibility for dealing with the emergency in the first instance fell primarily on the local authorities. Broadly, I think that they did a good job, although each one tackled the problem in different ways. I have seen the work that has been done. I think that in general the response was good. It is too early to make a detailed assessment of the exact decisions that were taken.

The right hon. Gentleman misunderstands the problem when it comes to financial assistance and the scale of the problem generally. As for the penny rate barrier and the assistance that is available once that limit is passed, it is assumed—the assumption was made by the Labour Government—that every local authority will make some reserve provision for emergencies and, if the scale of an emergency exceeds that normal provision, the Government will come in to provide financial assistance above that level. That is precisely what the Government have said. The Government will come in, but the volume of the financial assistance will depend upon the cost of the operation. I have already confirmed that it will not be cash limited.