HC Deb 27 October 1981 vol 10 cc705-6
2. Mr. Knox

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how much was spent per pupil in secondary schools in England in each of the past three years at constant prices.

The Secretary of State for Education and Science(Sir Keith Joseph)

Net institutional recurrent expenditure at 1980 survey prices for secondary pupils in England was £572 in 1977–78, £593 in 1978–79 and £601 in 1979–80.

Mr. Knox

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that he expects expenditure per secondary pupil in England this year to be higher in real terms than it has ever been?

Sir Keith Joseph

We have no actual figures for last year or this year, but, taking into account the larger number of teachers who were engaged last year than was anticipated, I think that the answer to my hon. Friend is almost certainly "Yes".

Mr. Kinnock

Has the Secretary of State yet replied to Mr. Bernard Barker, the head teacher of the Stanground school, Peterborough, who wrote to him a couple of weeks ago to inform him that in his, Mr. Barker's, opinion, due to the cuts, his school was now breaking section 8 of the Education Act 1944? If the Secretary of State will not accept Mr. Barker's practical illustration, will he accept his own evidence, as he said yesterday that many teachers were teaching age groups for which they are not trained in subjects for which they are not trained? If that is the case, how does the right hon. Gentleman think that the further cuts that he promised yesterday to assistant mistresses and masters will further improve standards of provision and performance in Britain's schools?

Sir Keith Joseph

I have not yet answered Mr. Barker. I entirely accept that I have inherited a position that has prevailed under all Governments since the war of a dramatic mismatch, as it is called, between teachers teaching subjects and their training to teach those subjects, or indeed, in many cases, to teach the age group that they are teaching. There is a mismatch, and it is difficult to cure. The present Government inherited it from the previous Government.

I did not say to the conference yesterday that there would be any cut in schools education. I said that at this time of the year all Governments normally examine all sectors of public spending.

Mr. Flannery

Does the Minister not realise that the cuts in education are now so drastic that they are eating deep into the fabric of education, while public funds are being siphoned off into private education, and that our children are being made to suffer so that private education can expand on taxpayers' money? That is the reality. Does he realise that a depleted and dedicated teaching force is now having to struggle because, as the Book Publishers Association and the equipment associations are coming to tell us—they are coming to our group tonight—sales of books have dropped and the schools do not have enough books or equipment with which to educate our children?

Sir Keith Joseph

Many different factors affect the costs of education—both ways. Local education authorities make their own decisions, both about resources and about how to spend them. The fact is that there is a sharp difference of effectiveness as between one LEA and another, both in the resources that they decide to spend and in the effectiveness of how they spend them.

The party that destroyed the direct grant schools has no right to complain when, on behalf of those who are most able to benefit from education and least able to get good education in their areas, the present Government, through my right hon. and learned Friend, my predecessor, have introduced the assisted places scheme.