HC Deb 27 October 1981 vol 10 cc703-5
1. Mr. Dormand

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what proposals he has to increase the number of nursery school places; and if he will make a statement.

The Under-Secretary of State for Education and Science (Dr. Rhodes Boyson)

There is provision in the Government's expenditure plans for modest capital expenditure to enable those authorities that wish to do so to increase their nursery accommodation, mainly by converting spare primary accommodation.

Mr. Dormand

Does the Minister agree that nursery school education is of great importance and that it can be of crucial importance to disadvantaged children? Is that not borne out by the fact that all Conservative Members ensure that their children have pre-school education? If, as is reported today, the Secretary of State proposes to charge for nursery school education, does he realise that that would be a disgraceful decision and that there would be total opposition to it from Labour Members?

Dr. Boyson

Two-thirds of nursery provision comes in inner city and urban areas where there is social and economic deprivation. The Government and local authorities have given priority to such areas. I cannot say what percentage of Conservative Members have children in pre-school education, but I should imagine that it is the same as in the rest of the community.

In answer to the hon. Gentleman's question about charging for nursery school education, section 61 of the Education Act 1944 prohibits the charging of fees in respect of education provided in maintained schools. The Government have taken no decision to alter that provision relating to nursery education.

Mr. Forman

Is my hon. Friend aware that the first answer that he gave will be welcome to many Conservative Members? Is he further aware that about 85 per cent. of all young children come from homes where mothers go out to work, either full-time or part-time? Does that not strengthen the already strong argument that nursery education should be provided wherever possible?

Dr. Boyson

Few hon. Members on either side would advocate nursery school education for all. The most that any Government have done has been to increase provision for those who wished it. Many people feel that it is always satisfactory when the mother can be at home with the children. We realise that there is deprivation in various other areas, but I think that my hon. Friend will agree that the way in which nursery school education has developed is helping those who need it.

Dr. McDonald

Is the Minister aware that many women who wish to go to work place the highest priority on nursery education for their children, not only for their benefit but for that of their children? Will the hon. Gentleman now firmly and finally rebut any belief that the Secretary of State may have that charges for nursery education may fall outside the 1944 Act and are therefore being seriously considered by the Government? Is he aware that such fantasies on the part of the Secretary of State or his Department have been firmly and totally rejected by the women and families of this country?

Dr. Boyson

I am sure that every hon. Member is aware that at times of economic recession all forms of education expenditure have to be examined to see whether there is a means of making economies or cut-backs. The hon. Lady is a member of a party which in 1975 and 1976 cut back heavily on education in many areas, probably with few shouts from Labour Members.

Mr. Field

Has the Minister read the reports of the Secretary of State's speech yesterday suggesting that the Government might introduce charges for nursery education? Does he agree that poor children benefit most from nursery education? Is he aware that under any means-tested form of support large numbers of poor families fail to claim their help? Does he accept that if the Government introduce means-tested charges for nursery education that will be possibly a fatal blow to the educational attainment and, thereby, the job opportunities of many poor children?

Dr. Boyson

As I have said, obviously the Government are looking at all areas of educational expenditure. I remind the hon. Member that over the last year 6,500 more children entered nursery education, under the present Government than in the previous year, and in the first year in which we were in office the number was 5,200.

I have here two quotations from what my right hon. Friend said yesterday. The first is this: I do have a slight feeling about the desirability of mothers of young children to be with them. I think that 95 per cent. of the people of this country would entirely agree with that.

Secondly, my right hon. Friend said: I do not see it as the duty of the Government to see that there is national provision for every child up to the age of five. Again, I think that 95 per cent. of the people of Britain would entirely agree with that.

Mr. Speaker

I appeal to the House for briefer supplementary questions and answers.