§ 4. Mr. Kilfedderasked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when he intends to make a statement on the recognition of the Association of Polytechnic Teachers in response to its formal application which he received on 16 November 1979.
§ 14. Mr. Alexanderasked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will now announce his decision on the application from the Association of Polytechnic Teachers for a seat on the Burnham committee; and if he will make a statement.
§ Mr. Mark CarlisleI have had a series of representations on these matters and intend to announce my conclusion within a month.
§ Mr. KilfedderSince it is manifestly unfair that settlements reached in the Burnham further education committee should be imposed on lecturers without representation, will the Secretary of State ensure that the APT is adequately represented on the committee?
§ Mr. CarlisleThere is no distinction in the pay structure or other nationally agreed conditions of service between teachers employed in polytechnics and those employed elsewhere in public sector further education, but I shall bear the hon. Gentleman's point in mind in reaching my conclusion.
§ Mr. FlanneryIs the Secretary of State aware that there are at least half a dozen questions down on this matter, basically from Conservative Members? Is he further aware that such teachers are adequately represented on the Burnham committee by the National Association of Teachers in Further and Higher Education? Does he accept that the Tory questions will tend to divide the teachers on the committee and weaken their position and that that is the ulterior motive behind the support for the APT?
§ Mr. CarlisleMy hon. Friends have several questions down on the Order Paper, as the matter is of interest to them. The hon. Gentleman holds the opposite opinion to the hon. Member for Down, North (Mr. Kilfedder). Overall, in further and higher education in the maintained sector the APT represents only 3.6 per cent. of teachers and lecturers, but in polytechnics alone it represents 16.4 per cent.
§ Mr. LathamIs my right hon. and learned Friend aware that we put down the questions because we wanted polytechnic teachers to be recognised by the union of their choice? Does he accept that, although we are pleased that he will be announcing his decision in a month, we hope that it will be a positive one?
§ Mr. CarlisleHaving said that I shall announce my decision within a month, I do not think that my hon. Friend would expect me to prejudge the issue.
§ Mr. Gwilym RobertsDoes the Minister accept that, although 16 per cent.—or 2,000—of polytechnic teachers are members of the APT, many more are represented by NATFHE, and that it would be absurd to encourage further segration in the representation of polytechnic teachers?
§ Mr. CarlisleOn 31 December last year, the relevant membership of the APT was 2,756, which is 16.4 per cent. of potential membership in polytechnics.