HC Deb 12 May 1981 vol 4 cc601-3
2. Mr. Dubs

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what assessment he has made of the effect of increased fees on the numbers and countries of origin of overseas students.

7. Mr. Canavan

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will conduct an investigation to find out the effects of Government policy of increasing fees for overseas students.

The Secretary of State for Education and Science (Mr. Mark Carlisle)

The effect of increased fees, and other factors, on the numbers and countries of origin of overseas students is already being investigated as part of a continuing exercise to monitor the effects of full-cost fees policy. I refer the hon. Member to the reply which my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary gave to the hon. Member for Derby, North (Mr. Whitehead) on 30 April.

Mr. Dubs

Will the Secretary of State confirm that the Prime Minister gave a commitment to the President of Nigeria on his recent visit that she would look again at the whole policy? Was the right hon. and learned Gentleman consulted before the Prime Minister gave that undertaking?

Mr. Carlisle

I cannot confirm whether any such undertaking was given. However, I can tell the hon. Gentleman that the number of students coming from Nigeria to universities last year was an increase on the figure for the previous year.

Mr. Canavan

Is not the Secretary of State ashamed that he is personally responsible for charging overseas students from some of the poorest countries the highest fees in the world? Combined with the other cuts in higher education, is not the Secretary of State aware that the viability of certain courses, especially technology-based courses in some of the Scottish colleges and universities, is threatened to such an extent that home students as well as overseas students will suffer unless that disastrous policy is changed?

Mr. Carlisle

I am certainly not ashamed. It was necessary to take the steps because the subsidy being paid indiscriminately to all students from overseas was running at over £100 million a year. It was being paid by the British taxpayer. We believed that it was right that that indiscriminate subsidy should be phased out.

With regard to the hon. Gentleman's reference to the poorer countries, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office recently announced that funds are being allocated under the overseas aid programme so that the number of new awards in 1981–82 for students and trainees from developing countries under Government-to-Government programmes and the Commonwealth scholarship and fellowship plan will be the same as in 1978 and 1979.

The hon. Gentleman also asked about the overall number of students. I remind him that the number in universities is still 4 per cent. above the number which the Labour Party planned under its quota for this year.

Mr. van Straubenzee

Has my right hon. and learned Friend observed the view in the Brandt report that overseas aid, particularly for students, should not be indiscriminate but should be channelled towards the poorer countries? When, economically, he is able to reconsider the matter, will he bear that view in mind? Will he also bear in mind the real contribution that we can make not only at degree but also at sub-degree level?

Mr. Carlisle

I share my hon. Friend's desire that any aid that we can give should be channelled towards the most deserving countries. My basic criticism of the plan that we inherited is that it did not attempt to discriminate in any way in the assistance given. If and when resources become available, we should be more discriminating in the aid that we give.

Mr. Maclennan

Can the Secretary of State confirm that in this academic year the number of students coming from Hong Kong has dropped by about 40 per cent. which is mirrored by an equivalent increase in the number going to the United States? Is the Secretary of State not concerned about that in view of the growing importance of Hong Kong as the commercial and financial centre of the Pacific basin and its importance to this country?

Mr. Carlisle

I cannot confirm the figures without notice, but I can tell the hon. Gentleman that over 1,000 university students came here from Hong Kong last year, which was the third highest number from any country. The figure for Hong Kong students in advanced and non-advanced colleges of further education was 3,870, which was again the third largest. In 1980–81, the figure for all overseas students entering our universities was down by 10 per cent. on the previous year.

Mr. Whitehead

If the Minister will not yield to arguments of altruism, will he consider arguments of self-interest? Is he prepared to enumerate the courses in universities, polytechnics and colleges of education that are in peril because of the massive fall-off in the number of overseas students?

Mr. Carlisle

I do not accept that argument. The number of overseas students coming to our universities was down last year by only 10 per cent. We still have more overseas students coming here now than under the quota system of the previous Government. However, if the demand for certain courses drops off, there may have to be rationalisation.