Nurses' Pay (Hansard, 5 May 1981)

§ 12. Mr. William Hamilton
asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will make a statement on nurses' pay.

§ Mr. Patrick Jenkin
Negotiation of nurses' pay is the responsibility of the Nurses and Midwives Whitley Council. I understand that the council has had some preliminary discussions about a 1981 settlement but has not yet begun any detailed negotiations.

§ Mr. Hamilton
Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that, as the Government have made it quite clear that they 9 will impose a limit of 6 per cent. on nurses' pay and the inflation rate is substantially greater than that, the Government are calling for a substantial reduction in the standard of living of those people? Does he adhere to the view expressed by his hon. Friend the Minister for Health in the Official Report on 15 March 1979 when the said that nurses are a special case deserving of the same kind of treatment as firemen, policemen and the rest? Is this yet another instance of the Tory Government clobbering the most deserving section in the community?

§ Mr. Jenkin
The hon. Gentleman, who is sponsored by a union that represents nurses, should know that the Government's record on nurses' pay is outstanding in that the cost of nurses' pay to the National Health Service in the two years since the election has increased by about 50 per cent. That is not a bad record. My hon. Friend the Minister for Health has followed up what he said before the election by the letter that he wrote to the management and staff sides of the Nurses and Midwives Whitley Council making proposals to get away from what has sometimes been called the four-year ratchet. Although we have had replies from the management side, we have not yet heard from the staff side.

§ Mr. Rhodes James
Is my right hon. Friend aware that the number of additional nurses in the National Health Service over the past two years amounts to over 8,000—one of whom is the daughter of the hon. Member for Cambridge (Mr. Rhodes James)? Is he aware that there is considerable concern in the profession that the differences of opportunity among nurses, doctors and consultants and the administrative staff represent a real problem—one to which I hope my right hon. Friend will give his attention?

§ Mr. Jenkin
The overwhelming majority of the additional staff recruited by the National Health Service in the past two years are engaged in the direct clinical care of patients. There are about 9,000 additional nurses. We have embarked upon reforms which will significantly reduce the burden on management and overheads in the Service.

§ Mr. Ashley
Although I am not sponsored by a union representing nurses, may I ask whether it is true that the Government regard nurses as no less important than soldiers and policemen, and will ensure that they are paid accordingly?

§ Mr. Jenkin
The Government made specific, direct and explicit commitments in their manifesto about the pay of the Armed Forces and the police. We also made it clear that we wished, as the hon. Member for Fife, Central (Mr. Hamilton) has reminded us, to find a better way of settling nurses' pay which does not have the effect, as happened under successive Governments—the right hon. Gentleman's Government were as guilty as any—of nurses' pay falling behind over four years and an inquiry being necessary so that they could catch up. That is not a satisfactory way of settling the pay of what, I agree, is an important group in our community.

§ Mr. Freud
Can the Secretary of State give the House a good reason for the recent increases in failures in nursing exams? Will he tell the nurses that that has nothing to do with economies in the NHS?

§ Mr. Jenkin
Since the question of the standards for passing exams is a matter entirely for the professional 10 bodies involved, working under the General Nursing Council, the hon. Gentleman's suggestion is unworthy of him. I can give the hon. Gentleman the good news that there has been a significant improvement in the wastage rate of nurses during training. More nurses are staying on, completing their training and coming into service. That is good news.

§ Mr. William Hamilton
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Under-Secretary of State's replies, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment.