§ 13. Dr. McDonaldasked the Secretary of State for Social Services what has been the percentage increase of National Health Service patients being treated under contractual arrangements with the private sector since January 1981; and in what specialties.
§ Sir George YoungThe information requested is not yet available. The latest available figures show that, in England in 1979, there were 24,600 in-patient treatments and 176,000 out-patient attendances under contractual arrangements with institutions outside the NHS. The comparable figures for 1978 were 23,300 and 191,600.
§ Dr. McDonaldDoes the hon. Gentleman agree that encouraging health authorities to take the private sector into account in planning for the future is a subtle way of undermining the NHS? Does he also agree that, as there can be no guarantees that the private sector provision would be available to NHS patients in changed economic circumstances, the whole move in the recent DHSS circular is designed to turn the NHS into a second-rate service and to force people into the private sector?
§ Sir George YoungThat is absolute rubbish. The contractual arrangements between the NHS and the private sector have existed ever since the NHS was formed in 1948. If local health authorities wish to use the private sector in the interests of NHS patients they should be free to do so.
§ Mr. Paul DeanContrary to what the hon. Member for Thurrock (Dr. McDonald) has said, do not the figures that my hon. Friend has given show the value of co-operation between the NHS and the private sector? Will he confirm that the growth of the private sector is helping to relieve pressure on the NHS and to retain staff in medicine and in nursing?
§ Sir George YoungMy hon. Friend is right. We see the private sector as an integral part of the health resources available to this country and we are anxious that the NHS should be free to make use of it if it wishes. To do otherwise would be wasteful and would ultimately penalise NHS patients.
§ Mr. Terry DavisWill the Under-Secretary confirm that the Government have recently made it possible for the first time for business men to obtain money from the NHS in order to provide or maintain private hospitals and then to make a profit out of contracts with the NHS?
§ Sir George YoungI should like further details of the transaction that the hon. Gentleman has outlined, so that I can respond to his remarks.
§ Sir William ClarkWill my hon. Friend tell us how many trade union members enjoy the advantages of BUPA and the like following negotiations by their leaders?
§ Sir George YoungI should very much like to give those figures, but the trade unions seem rather coy about releasing them.
§ Mrs. Renée ShortIs it not a fact that general surgery gets the pickings from the private sector in the NHS and that tonsilectomies, appendicectomies and prostate gland operations are the major sources of income? As those services are being given to patients from outside the NHS, does it not mean that those people are jumping the queue and that NHS patients are having to wait longer?
§ Sir George YoungIn the hope that, if the hon. Lady will not listen to what I say, she will listen to what Barbara Castle said——
§ Mrs. ShortI am asking you.
§ Sir George YoungThe hon. Lady may prefer to accept it from Mrs. Castle who said:
I believe that it would be intolerable in a democratic society to prevent people buying private medical care if they felt that it was an essential part of their personal interest."—[Official Report, Standing Committee D, 18 May 1976; c. 38.]