HC Deb 11 June 1981 vol 6 cc535-7
7. Mr. Skinner

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department to what extent the short, sharp shock sentences have affected the crime level; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Mayhew

Serious offences recorded by the police are being analysed as part of the wider evaluation of the tougher regimes' pilot project in detention centres. The results of the evaluation programme are likely to be available in early 1983.

Mr. Skinner

Why does not the Minister or his right hon. Friend inform the House, in a short sharp way, to what extent the crime figures have been reduced as a result of this gimmick put forward at the Tory Party conference some time ago? Will he give an assurance that, instead of producing another rabbit out of the hat at the Tory Party conference, the Government will come up with a real answer to the problems of crime by eliminating unemployment, getting rid of poverty and bad housing and tackling the wreckage of the social services, for which the Government are to blame?

Mr. Mayhew

The reason why the Government will not give figures now about the extent to which the crime rate has been reduced is that, unlike the hon. Gentleman and many members of his party, we pay some attention to the existence or non-existence of evidence as the basis for opinions. We were elected, the hon. Gentleman may remember, to experiment in certain detention centres with a tougher regime. I am glad to say that in the two detention centres, where the experiment is being conducted, a tougher regime does exist. It seems a very satisfactory experiment. That is why the Government have enlarged it.

Mrs. Faith

Is my hon. and learned Friend aware that when I visited Foston Hall detention centre in my constituency during the Easter Recess the warden was very pleased, and welcomed the fact that it would shortly start the short, sharp regime?

Mr. Mayhew

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I pay tribute to the wardens of the two detention centres at Send and New Hall. There is no doubt that at those two centres the pace is quicker, the work is harder, the standards of conduct are higher, and drill parades and inspections impose new demands upon the inmates.

Dr. Summerskill

Is the hon. and learned Gentleman aware, if he wants to pay attention to evidence, as he has just said, that extensive research has already been carried out by various bodies into the different regimes at detention centres, including research by the Home Office itself? Will he explain why it is necessary to have yet another experiment, ignoring the evidence that already exists, if it is not to appease the next Conservative Party conference?

Mr. Mayhew

I suspect that the hon. Lady, with her experience, will know that the re-conviction rate within two years of discharge in junior detention centres is at present 75 per cent., and in senior detention centres 57 per cent. That suggests that there is no ground for supposing that the normal regime at detention centres is not capable of improvement. We wish to experiment, and that is what we are doing.

Mr. Robert Atkins

Does my hon. and learned Friend agree that the short, sharp shock experience of the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) in the not too distant past appears to have had a minor benefit on his behaviour in the House?

Mr. Mayhew

It is important that we all acknowledge that there is a place for experiment. Many people, including no doubt the hon. Gentleman's own constituents, recognise that there is a place for an experiment with a tougher regime.