§ 7. Mr. Freesonasked the Secretary of State for Social Services on how many occasions he has been informed of a conflict between managerial responsbilities and trade union activities in the National Health Service.
§ Mr. Patrick JenkinI would not usually expect to be informed about this type of management issue, which is for health authorities to resolve. One recent incident was brought to my notice by the press.
§ Mr. FreesonHas not the right hon. Gentleman's Department issued a secret instruction to regional hospital authorities asking them to report on the extent of the involvement of managerial staff in trade union activities, which is trespassing on their rights under the Employment Act? What is going on in that regard in his Department?
§ Mr. JenkinThe answer to the right hon. Gentleman's first two questions are "No, Sir" and "No, Sir". The vast majority of people in the National Health Service recognise the potential conflict between management responsibilities and active trade union participation. Fortunately, the problem arises very rarely indeed. I have given no instructions to anyone about it.
§ Mr. Anthony GrantIs my right hon. Friend aware that the evidence shows that there is far less conflict between management and trade union activities when the 135 ancillary services in the Health Service are run by private enterprise and not direct labour? What steps is he taking to encourage the greater use of private enterprise in the Health Service?
§ Mr. JenkinMy hon. Friend is most assiduous in drawing that important development to our attention. I assure him that my hon. Friends and I lose no opportunity to impress on health authorities the desirability of getting the best possible bargain for the provision of ancillary services and the fact that they should look to the private sector when they believe that they can get a better bargain instead of employing their own staff directly.
§ Mr. Russell KerrIs the Minister aware that the continuing short-changing of the NHS by the Government is producing a situation where there is bound to be conflict between management in the NHS and Health Service workers? Will he and his colleagues please give up their Scrooge-like attitude so that we can have a decent Health Service at long last?
§ Mr. JenkinThe hon. Gentleman must know that the expenditure projections of this Government are precisely in line with those of our predecessors. He should direct his criticisms to his right hon. Friend the Member for Norwich, North (Mr. Ennals).
§ Mr. Terry DavisWhy is the Secretary of State being so coy about the document issued in November? May I remind him that he asked regional personnel officers to report on the extent to which managerial staff are engaged in trade union activities? Why did he want that information?
§ Mr. JenkinThe hon. Gentleman no doubt had his attention drawn to the case of the sector administrator in one hospital who was being disciplined becase she took action on a picket line, picketing another hospital in the same district. Her managament considered that that was inconsistent with her management obligations. She was a local COHSE chairman. It seemed to me in those circumstances that it might be wise to see whether such a situation was widespread. I am happy to say that it is not. I have issued no instructions to anyone about the matter.