§ 8. Mr. Gwilym Robertsasked the Secretary of State for Social Services what has been the cost to the National Health Service in the past 12 months of the employment of agency nurses.
§ Dr. VaughanIn the financial year 1979–80, the cost of employing agency nurses in the NHS amounted to £30.3 million.
§ Mr. RobertsDoes the Minister accept that in certain circumstances such expenditure could be wasteful, because other hospitals often do not have the financial resources to employ the number of NHS nurses that they need? Does he accept that it is in a sense another example of a hidden subsidy from the NHS to the private sector, since most of the nurses will have been trained by the NHS?
§ Dr. VaughanI do not accept that. We are talking about relatively small numbers—some 4,300 agency nurses working in the NHS. On average, the total cost of an agency nurse is very little different from that of a directly employed nurse.
§ Mr. PavittWill the Minister examine the problems that occur where agency nurses have to be used? Is he aware that, for example, in Kensington and Chelsea, 1,200 private beds already exist, with another 349 in the pipeline, a situation which is leading to an acute shortage of nursing staff, particularly specialist nurses? Does he realise that the problem exists throughout London? Will he accept that the drain of nurses to look after private patients is forcing the NHS to employ agency nurses?
§ Dr. VaughanI do not accept that. The majority of nurses working with agencies do so because the system is more flexible. They can make better provision for their personal needs in terms of working hours and availability during the week. The hon. Gentleman is correct about London. About 90 per cent, of agency nurses are working in the London region.
§ Mrs. DunwoodyIs the Minister aware that where agency nurses are employed alongside NHS nurses there is a great deal of ill-feeling? With the encouragement that the Minister is giving to private practice, shall we not soon reach the position where NHS nurses are paid considerably less than agency nurses, but will be providing, if only by default, services for the private sector?
§ Dr. VaughanI do not know where the hon. Lady gets her information. I know of no great friction or rivalry between agency nurses and general nurses working in the NHS. No nurse likes to have a strange nurse who does not understand the layout in the ward and we are very conscious of that.