§ Q1. Mr. Cryerasked the Prime Minister when last she met the leaders of the Trades Union Congress.
§ The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)I met the TUC general secretary with representatives of the European Trades Union Confederation on 25 November.
§ Mr. CryerDoes the Prime Minister accept that the TUC will regard her support for Polish trade unionists fighting for democratic rights as wholly hypocritical when, in this country, she is using the imprisonment of the dole queue and the intervention of the courts to suppress organised workers? Are not the same double standards demonstrated when she asks trade unionists to accept low wages while at the same time appointing to the head of a Civil Service department Mr. Montague Alfred, at a wage of £50,000 per year? Does not that show that she does not give a damn about workers in the United Kingdom, Poland or anywhere else?
§ The Prime MinisterThe hon. Gentleman must be hard put for a question if he finds any parallel whatever between conditions in this country and in Poland. Reports reach us of shootings, detention and great oppression in Poland. We vigorously denounce what is happening there and condemn it with all the strength and power that we can. There is no parallel whatever with anything that is happening in this country.
§ Mr. Archie HamiltonWhen my right hon. Friend next meets the leaders of the TUC, will she discuss with them the possibility of a strike at Ford's? Will she emphasise to those involved that the short-term result can 866 only mean far more Ford cars being imported from Europe and that the long-term results must be a rundown in, the manufacture of Ford cars in this country?
§ The Prime MinisterI wholly agree with what my hon. Friend has said. One very much hopes that the strike at Ford's will not take place. At present, there are many good jobs there. One hopes that they will be kept and that Ford will continue to prosper in this country, but it can do so only by increasing its productivity.
§ Mr. FootWe shall of course fight the right hon. Lady's trade union legislation when she introduces it, but in view of the black shadow that Poland casts across the whole of this Christmas and the feelings that I believe are shared throughout the country on this, may I ask whether the right hon. Lady has any recent information on the subject? What is the position of Lech Walesa? What is the Government's information about the manner in which he is being held?
What is the Government's latest information on the scale of the attacks made on workers and people exercising their right to strike and protest in Poland? Can the right hon. Lady also tell us what breaches of the Helsinki agreement are involved in what is happening and what steps the Government can take to assist refugees who may come here, and in every other way to express the protest of the people of this country alt what is happening in Poland and the brutal suppression that is taking place?
§ The Prime MinisterAs I said in an earlier reply, we are all very deeply concerned at what is happening in Poland and we totally condemn the oppression by the present regime. With regard to refugees, a number of people from Poland are visiting this country and, of course, they will stay here for the time being. With regard to reports of shooting and oppression, we cannot confirm individual cases, but, in general, that is our information too. Of course, it seems that almost every undertaking of the Helsinki agreement is being flouted.
The right hon. Gentleman did not mention food, but I know that he would expect me to say a word or two about that. He will understand the difficulties involved, but we are all anxious to do everything that we possibly can to help the Polish people, without allowing food to fall into the hands of the military authorities. We have been in touch with the Red Cross authorities in Geneva. Most of our food has already gone to Poland. There is only a little left, mostly barley and a few tons of beef, but we shall make strenuous efforts to ensure that any future deliveries of food get to the people of Poland.
§ Mr. FootI am grateful to the Prime Minister for what she has said about the supply of food. I asked her earlier about the Government's latest information on Lech Walesa and how he is being held.
§ The Prime MinisterI am sorry that I did not reply to that question. I should have done so. We have no precise information over and above what has already been reported. It is not possible to get precise information. Lech Walesa is being detained, but beyond that I cannot give the right hon. Gentleman any direct information.
We all bitterly and deeply regret that action is being taken to extinguish the flame of freedom that had started in Poland——
§ The Prime MinisterIf the authorities believe that they can snuff out that flame they are making an error of historic proportions.
§ Mr. EggarWhen my right hon. Friend next meets trade union leaders will she point out to them that the only way that we can achieve the increases in capital expenditure that we all earnestly desire is if current expenditure is kept under control? Will she make it clear to those leaders that she will not permit public sector employees to take wage increases that imperil capital investment programmes?
§ The Prime MinisterMy hon. Friend is right in suggesting that we need to curb current expenditure if we are to get more capital expenditure, which most of us want. Many people would like more capital expenditure, but we often find that they nevertheless take out in wage increases the money that we need for that expenditure. That stops other people from getting more jobs.