HC Deb 09 December 1981 vol 14 cc852-3
9. Mr. Douglas

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the Government's proposals for the reform of local government finance in Scotland.

Mr. Younger

My proposals for amending the statutory provisions relating to determination of rates are contained in clause 1 of the Local Government and Planning (Scotland) Bill, which received its Second Reading earlier this week. The wider question of domestic rating will be considered in a Green Paper to be published shortly, as indicated by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment on 2 December.

Mr. Douglas

Will the Secretary of State acknowledge that the question referred to the reform of local government finance, while his answer referred to his decimation of democracy in local government and to direct interference that will enable him, in effect, to set local rate levels? Will he undertake to give as soon as possible a clear indication of the exact nature of clause 3 of the Bill to which he has referred? This is a matter of pressing importance to local authorities such as Fife.

Mr. Younger

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's second point. I am aware of his interest in the matter. We are discussing the issue with COSLA, and we shall announce as soon as possible what is to happen.

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton

Will my right hon. Friend give some indication of the number of representations that he has received from ratepayers organisations and ratepayers that ratepayers should be adequately protected against excessive rate rises?

Mr. Younger

My hon. Friend may know that I have had between 30,000 and 40,000 such representations. I have had no additional representations since the debate on Monday when the new alterations were approved by the House.

Mr. David Steel

How can the Secretary of State justify his written answer to me yesterday that he plans to discontinue the capital grants scheme for local youth and voluntary organisations in favour of transferring money into projects in cities? How can he justify taking money from rural areas and giving it to the cities in this way? What is the connection between the two?

Mr. Younger

I stress that this is not the final decision. These are proposals for discussion. I note what the right hon. Gentleman says, and we shall of course take that into account in deciding whether to proceed in that way.

Mr. Millan

Will the Secretary of State now answer the question that was put to him on Monday, but which he did not answer then? What does the cash limit for 1982–83 mean in terms of a real reduction in expenditure for Scottish local authorities?

Mr. Younger

The matter will be discussed in the annual consultations with COSLA. That is how it is always presented to local government associations, and that is what we shall do next week.

Mr. Millan

We have been told the figures for England and Wales. Why cannot we be told the figure for Scotland?

Mr. Younger

As the right hon. Gentleman knows, it has always been the practice to reveal that information at the rate grant settlement meeting. That is how he always did it, and I do not know why he wants me to change the practice now.

Mr. Henderson

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the promised consultative document on rating reform will deal with the considerable imbalance between those who pay for local government services through rates and the number of people who vote in local elections?

Mr. Younger

I appreciate what my hon. Friend said. He will have to wait until he sees the Green Paper, but I think that he will find that his point is fully covered.