§ 11. Mr. Dubsasked the Secretary of State for Transport whether he plans to meet the chairman of British Railways to discuss services in the London area.
§ Mr. Kenneth ClarkeWe have received recently the board's plan for its London and South-East services that my right hon. Friend commissioned from the chairman. This sets out a number of policy options. We shall be discussing this plan with the chairman very soon, with a view to consulting more widely on it.
§ Mr. DubsWill the Minister also discuss with the chairman of British Rail the possibility of integrating British Rail commuter services in the London area with London Transport services? Does he agree that the examples of other cities in the world, particularly Paris, suggest that there are major benefits in such integration?
§ Mr. ClarkeThere certainly is more scope for integration of fares and other policies between British Rail and London Transport. I know that the management of British Rail is interested in that and is trying to make progress with it. Many comparisons can be made with Paris, but they do not all lead in the same direction. In this case, I am sure that both British Rail and London Transport are anxious to make pregress in integrating their services.
§ Mr. Michael McNair-WilsonHow much of the public service obligation grant is spent by British Rail on subsidies for its London services?
§ Mr. ClarkeThe total PSO grant is more than £2 million a day—well over £600 million per year. It is 778 difficult to put a precise figure on the amounts spent in London and the South-East. My right hon. Friend recently suggested that there might be a separate board for London and the South-East under the main British Rail board. That would help us to identify a separate management unit and perhaps also to fix a definite sum of money within the PSO for commuter services.
§ Mr. NewensIs the Minister aware of the deep concern among commuters who live around the London area about the shortcomings of the services that they use to get into London and back home again as a result of the financial difficulties of British Rail? Is he prepared to state clearly here and now that the Government will give British Rail all the financial support that it needs to provide a decent and adequate level of commuter services for those people?
§ Mr. ClarkeWe have not the slightest doubt about the level of dissatisfaction felt by commuters about many of their services. But the reasons are many. The recent Monopolies and Mergers Commission report that we commissioned identified a large number of areas in which action was needed and which I am glad to say British Rail is pursuing. We have not cut the investment level of British Rail. A high proportion of that investment goes into commuter services. We have increased the public service obligation by £23 million for next year. So even in these difficult times, the financial side is not the major cause of difficulty.