Privatisation (Hansard, 29 April 1981)

§ 13. Mr. Iain Mills
asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he has any further plans for privatisation and liberalisation of any organisation in the transport sector.

§ Mr. Fowler
So far as the introduction of private capital is concerned, I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave earlier today to my hon. Friend the Member for Morecambe and Lonsdale (Mr. Lennox-Boyd). So far as liberalisation is concerned, the Transport Act 1980 provided for the removal of many controls over passenger transport operations. I am encouraged by the response to this deregulation.

§ Mr. Mills
I thank my right hon. Friend and welcome his encouragement. Will he comment, however, on how successful the liberalisation of the traffic commissioners, which was part of the Transport Act 1980, has been and whether he has received any evidence that it is now working in terms of coach services?

§ Mr. Fowler
In terms of coach services particularly, the Act has led to an unprecedented increase in services. On many major inter-city routes, such as London-Birmingham, London-Manchester and London-Liverpool, there has been an increase in passengers of about 150 per cent. At the same time, prices have actually come down, in some cases by about half, as a result of competition and deregulation.

§ Mr. Prescott
Does the Minister recall that at the last Transport Question Time one of the advantages that he claimed for the liberalisation brought about by these measures was that rural services were improving and he cited South Humberside as an example? Is he aware that in the last two weeks the reduction or withdrawal of more than 14 rural services has been announced in that area, with no services at weekends, reduced services early in the morning and late at night, and with services having been replaced by a private operator operating about one a day?

§ Mr. Fowler
The information that I have about services that have been abandoned by the National Bus Company is that independents have taken over at lower fares in areas such as Exeter, Somerset, Devon, Dorset and Leicestershire. I cannot speak with authority on the hon. Gentleman's own area, but the signs are very encouraging and suggest that independents are now coming forward.

§ Mr. Marland
Will my right hon. Friend confirm that one of the difficulties that his Department is encountering with regard to further privatisation is that many of those employed in the various sectors within his responsibility have index-linked pensions and potential purchasers do not want to take on that responsibility?

§ Mr. Fowler
I do not think that that has been a problem in our plans to bring private capital into these industries. Certainly in the National Freight Company, where that was one of the fears, I think that we have found ways to overcome that. Indeed, many of the staff are now very enthusiastic about their entry into the private sector.

§ Mr. Haynes
Will the Secretary of State forget the profit motive and provide a service for the people in the community? Will he admit that he and the Under-Secretary have tried private services in the county of Nottinghamshire, that those services have failed, and that there is nothing to replace them because of the Government's own policy?

§ Mr. Fowler
I do not think that anyone quite follows the point that the hon. Gentleman seeks to make. I shall explain to him what is actually being done. He seems to believe that all passenger transport is now run on a commercial basis. I must tell him that at present more than £½ billion per year is going into the bus services—that includes concessionary fares—from ratepayers and taxpayers.

§ Mr. Haynes
That is nothing.

§ Mr. Fowler
If the hon. Gentleman says that that is nothing, that further confirms that the Labour Party is standing for more and higher rates in the forthcoming elections.