HC Deb 31 July 1980 vol 989 cc1711-3
8. Mr. Ioan Evans

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what further action is proposed to reduce the prison population.

Mr. Whitelaw

The Government are doing all they can to promote and encourage the development of alternatives to imprisonment, including the provision of additional resources for the work of the probation service and others. Five new senior attendance centres are being planned, and measures are in hand which it is hoped will lead to a reduction in the numbers of mentally disordered offenders and habitual drunks in prison. However, it is clear that the best and earliest hope of reducing the prison population rests on the imposition of shorter custodial sentences by the courts.

Mr. Evans

Will the Home Secretary consider following the example set by my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds, South (Mr. Rees) who gave a 50 per cent. remission of sentences when he was Secretary of State for Northern Ireland? Is it not a fact that overcrowded conditions and the fact that three or four men are crowded into each cell does not assist them to lead a noncriminal life when they leave prison?

Mr. Whitelaw

We shall debate these matters in the House tomorrow. I note what the hon. Gentleman says and I have consistently made it clear that I rely on shorter sentences being imposed by the courts. However, I have never ruled out the sort of emergency measures which were carried through in Northern Ireland by the right hon. Member for Leeds, South, (Mr. Rees).

Mr. Lawrence

While welcoming the determined actions of my right hon. Friend in this sphere is it not clear that, even if all the measures he is taking have some effect, there will still be a desperately high prison population? Is it not absolutely necessary that we consider building more prisons? Will my right hon. Friend make a statement about that in the debate on the prison report tomorrow?

Mr. Whitelaw

Yes, I will.

Mr. Soley

If the prison population continues to rise and the courts do not impose shorter sentences on a voluntary basis, to what level will the prison population have to rise before the Home Secretary recommends legislation?

Mr. Whitelaw

I am not so unwise as to indulge in discussion of such numbers.

Mr. Nicholas Winterton

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that the best way to prevent the prison population rising is to have real deterrents for those who commit crime? Will he not, therefore, reintroduce hard labour in prisons, corporal punishment, and capital punishment for certain categories of murder?

Mr. Whitelaw

No, Sir.

Mr. Christopher Price

Does not the Home Secretary agree that a proper way to reduce the prison population would be to make sure that those prisoners who should be in hospital—because they are ill—are in hospital? Is not the Home Secretary concerned about the recent death in Ashford remand home of a young prisoner, whose parents were not informed of the position? What further action is the Home Secretary taking to make sure that that kind of death in an establishment for which he is responsible never happens again?

Mr. Whitelaw

I share the hon. Gentleman's concern. No Home Secretary can be free from anxiety when such things happen in the system. I deeply regret those happenings and shall do everything I can to see that they do not occur again. I shall, of course, take account of what the hon. Gentleman says. I agree with him that as many prisoners as possible who are ill should be in hospital.