Sickness Benefit (Hansard, 16 December 1980)

§ 4. Mr. Cook
asked the Secretary of State for Social Services how many employee organisations or unions have welcomed the proposals in his Green Paper on sickness benefit.

§ Mr. Prentice
Approximately 30 trade unions and other organisations representing employees have commented on the Green Paper "Income During Initial Sickness: A New Strategy". None has expressed support for the proposals.

§ Mr. Cook
I am grateful to the Minister for that answer, which confirms that the overwhelming opinion among unions and other employee organisations is to condemn a proposal which will at the same time increase the burden on industry and cut the benefit to the sick. Will he confirm that the effect of the abolition of earnings-related supplement and the introduction of a flat-rate sickness benefit will be to cut in half the maximum benefit available to a married man with two children? Does he admit that if any private insurance company were to renege on its obligations to policyholders in the way that he is reneging on his obligations to national insurance contributors, it would end up before the courts?

§ Mr. Prentice
The phasing out of earnings-related supplement is an entirely separate issue, which was part of an Act of Parliament that went through all its stages during the previous Session. The Green Paper proposes financial provision for people during the first eight weeks of sickness which, taking employees in this country as a whole, is equal in value to the existing provision under the national insurance scheme.

§ Mr. McCrindle
Why should trade unions or anyone else oppose proposals when one of the aims is to treat income for taxation purposes equally whether it is earned in employment or during sickness? Could not that be said to be a basis of equality that should appeal to the trade unions?

§ Mr. Prentice
When I met a deputation from the TUC about a fortnight ago to discuss these matters, I tried, with my usual tact and gentleness, to explain that I thought its attitude was a bit stick-in-the-mud. Trade unions have worked over many years to extend the rights of workers to receive sick pay from their employers. Between 80 per cent. and 90 per cent. of people at work in this country are covered by employers' sick pay arrangements. I would have thought that the TUC would welcome a statutory provision which ensures that remaining workers are covered. If it took an adventurous view of the future and was not so stick-in-the-mud, it would regard this as a basis for negotiating in better times more favourable arrangements than those laid down as the statutory minimum.

§ Mr. Rooker
if none of the 30 employees' organisations with which the Minister has had meetings has agreed the proposals, what proportion of employers' organisations supports the proposals?

§ Mr. Prentice
We received a great many representations from both employers' and employees' organisations. [HON. MEMBERS: "Answer the question."] I shall come to the main question. Because it was a consultative document, we have benefited from many detailed suggestions made by both trade unions and employers' organisations. The final shape of the scheme will take note of many of their points. In general, I agree that there is too much conservatism on the part of employers' organisations and trade unions.