HC Deb 16 December 1980 vol 996 cc130-2
5. Mr. Gwilym Roberts

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services whether, in the light of the recent fall-off in the number of kidney donor cardholders, he will now provide the revised figures for the introduction of a computerised donor system; and if he will take steps to introduce such a system.

The Minister for Health (Dr.Gerard Vaughan)

No, Sir. A computer register would cost about £4.5 million initially and about£340,000 a year to run. We do not think that it would increase the number of kidneys donated. My hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State put this in his letter to the hon. Gentleman on 29 September, and I shall circulate a full text in the Official Report.

Mr. Roberts

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that it is farcical to distribute kidney donor cards on what appears to be a haphazard basis when there is no return to any sort of central bank? Does he not agree that the figures which have been given for providing a computerised system seem to fall regularly, although provided by his right hon. Friend? They have gone down as time passes. Is he aware that computer systems experts believe that the cost would be only a fraction of the latest figure?

Dr. Vaughan

I cannot accept that it would be an improvement on the present system. I remind the hon. Gentleman that it was a Conservative Government who introduced donor cards in 1972. Since then, 30 million cards have been issued, 16 million since May last year. That shows the way in which the Government have extended the range of contact between possible donors and kidney transplants.

Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson

Has there been any recovery in the number of kidney donors coming forward?

Dr. Vaughan

Yes. There has been a small recovery. I hope that this will continue.

Mr. Ashley

I appreciate the Minister's personal concern with this problem. Is he aware that if he is not prepared to adopt a computerised system, which he ought to do, despite the cost, he should introduce the opting-out system, which is the only realistic way to ensure that enough kidney donors are brought forward?

Dr. Vaughan

I am surprised that the right hon. Gentleman should raise that matter. He knows, like the Government, that the majority of people who have been asked about the matter would prefer not to have an opting-out system. They would prefer to continue the present system. We think that the present system should be extended.

Mr. Farr

Will my hon. Friend say how the national multi-organ donor card system is progressing, on the lines of that pioneered so successfully by the south-west Leicester community health council?

Dr. Vaughan

The take-up of multi-donor cards is increasing satisfactorily. A most important advance is that the Post Office, having previously refused, has now agreed to distribute cards. From January next year, the Post Office will be distributing 5 million cards, 2.5 million of them kidney donor cards and 2.5 million the new part-kidney, part multi-donor card. We shall also be introducing next year a multi-donor card—a green and white card—in its own right to replace the present cards.

Several Hon. Members

rose—

Mr. Speaker

Order. This matter comes up again on Question 7.

Dr. Vaughan

Following is the letter:

"Dear Gwilym,

I am now able to reply fully to your letter of 26 July to Patrick Jenkin on the question of cost estimates for a computerised system for kidney and other organ donation, with which you also enclosed the correspondence (attached) from S. P. Jones, Triad Computing Systems Limited. I am sorry for the delay in replying.

The estimates for a kidney donor register previously quoted to you were made in 1978 and were based on an "opting-in" register of 21/25 million records and about three million subsequent amendments per annum. The costs were based on the procurement of a large computer, its accommodation, setting up the register and the maintenance of computer equipment, software and keeping the register up-to-date.

As Mr. Jones mentions in his letter, due to changing technology a kidney donor register could now be held on a smaller computer with reduced equipment and maintenance costs. However, staff costs, which form a large part of the expense of setting up the register and keeping it up to date, have continued to increase.

We estimate that the initial cost of such a register would still be about £4.5 million comprising: mini-computer £50,000, disc and tape equipment, £140,000, 30 visual display units £37,000 and setting up costs (@20p per record) £4.2 million. Running costs might, however, now be only £340,000 per annum.

As regards the suggestion made by Mr. Jones for a Scrapbook System, we have no evidence that this would be the most appropriate system for a kidney donor register, but should it be decided sometime in the future to go ahead with such a register, then TRIAD would of course be free to respond to a competitive tender.

Yours sincerely,

Sir George Young."