HC Deb 05 February 1979 vol 962 cc7-9
6. Mr. Adley

asked the Secretary of State for Energy if he has any plans to increase State control of the energy industries.

Mr. Benn

A number of the proposals in the White Paper "The Nationalised Industries", (Cmnd. 7131), which dealt with relations with, and control over, the nationalised industries, are being pursued in the energy sector. In addition, the House is aware of the Government proposal for legislation to reorganise the electricity supply industry in England and Wales. Otherwise, I have at present no plans to enact new controls over the energy industries.

Mr. Adley

That last statement will no doubt be welcomed, but does the right hon. Gentleman agree that in the post-Iranian situation, if I may so describe it, it is important that we do our best to encourage the greatest possible investment, particularly in the oil industry? Does he agree also that, in view of the lessening interest of both Esso and Shell, this might be the time for a little less stick and a little more carrot to encourage investment from the multi-national and private enterprise sectors?

Mr. Benn

The last round of licences was a great success. I have been guided in my approach by the lead given by Winston Churchill in 1914 when he nationalised the Anglo-Persian Petroleum Company. That was the best public investment that there has ever been. Undoubtedly, the growing public control over the North Sea is the real answer to the uncertainty in the supply of oil world wide.

Mr. Hardy

I welcome my right hon. Friend's concern to maintain a sensible and amicable relationship with the energy industry. Does he think it reasonable that this House, in view of the most severe weather that this country has experienced for a generation, should offer commendation on the fact that the industry has served the nation particularly well?

Mr. Benn

I agree with that entirely. Not only has the industry served the country well, but, as we look around the world and see the great uncertainty in parts of the world from which we have drawn oil supplies, we can only conclude that it becomes even more necessary to preserve, develop and expand our indigenous resources.

Mr. Viggers

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that one of the industries for which he is responsible is that covered by the NCB? How can he turn his back on discussions between the Board and the mineworkers' leaders, when he must stand behind the Board's chairman unless his absence of support will undermine the negotiations altogether?

Mr. Benn

Not only have I not turned my back on the discussions, but last week I chaired a meeting—a meeting which is due to be resumed next week—about the future of the mining industry. That is the proper way for a Minister to act. I am not prepared to negotiate with the NUM, which is a task placed by Parliament on the shoulders of the NCB.

Mr. Stoddart

What are the latest prospects for the introduction of an electricity Bill this Session?

Mr. Benn

I have been engaged in discussions to see whether I could find a basis for agreement with the Opposition to make such a Bill possible. Those discussions have been taking place for some time. I am in correspondence with the Opposition Front Bench, and I hope that we shall make progress.

Mr. Gray

With regard to State ownership in certain areas, does the right hon. Gentleman endorse the recent comment by Lord Kearton that the national oil account is unnecessary and should be done away with?

Mr. Benn

The national oil account was set up by Parliament. I am strongly in favour of chairmen of nationalised industries expressing their views, but I am not of the opinion that they should determine what is in the national interest. The House of Commons should stand by the decision which it took on the advice of the present Government, and myself as Secretary of State.

Mr. Heffer

Is my right hon. Friend aware that many Labour Members—indeed, I hope all—will warmly welcome the statement that it is not his job to negotiate with the NUM and the NCB? Too many Ministers in the past have made statements on wages matters which they should not have made. Is he also aware that many of us would regard the so-called post-Iranian situation mentioned by the hon. Member for Christchurch and Lymington (Mr. Adley) as precisely the reason why we should have control of our own energy resources and not allow them to get into other hands?

Mr. Benn

I agree very strongly with my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Walton (Mr. Heffer) on that latter point. The Conservative Party introduced the Fuel and Electricity (Control) Act, which gave it total power over all the energy industries at the time of the OPEC price increase of 1973. We have introduced the Energy Act, and public ownership of our own resources is the best guarantee that we shall have access to them during periods of world emergency.