HC Deb 05 February 1979 vol 962 cc9-11
8. Mr. Knox

asked the Secretary of State for Energy what discussions he has had with the European Commission regarding alternative sources of energy.

Mr. Benn

The Commission participates in discussions in Council when its proposals are considered by my European colleagues and myself.

The Council of Ministers last December discussed support for projects to exploit alternative energy sources under the regulation which it had agreed in June. We were not able to reach agreement on the additional measures which are necessary before such support can be made available. The Council has yet to discuss the Commission's latest proposals for research and development of alternative energy sources.

Mr. Knox

Will the Secretary of State say when the Council intends to discuss this matter and reach a decision? Does he agree that, in view of the inadequate size of the programme in terms of research into alternative energy sources, it would be much better to pool our resources on an EEC basis?

Mr. Benn

I do not agree that our programmes are inadequate. The United Kingdom will spend £15.7 million over the next three or four years. The Community is spending only 59 million units of account, which is not much more, for the whole of the Community. I believe that it is important to go for what is cost-effective. I was somewhat surprised to hear, at the last Council of Ministers meeting, that the programme we were then discussing was recommended on the ground that it was easier to get money out of the Community than from national Governments. My opinion is that one should be cost-effective whether one is doing it at home or in conjunction with others. When the scheme is properly worked out and presented, I am sure that it will be agreed by the Council.

Mr. William Hamilton

Does my right hon. Friend consider that alternative sources of energy are likely to be sufficiently substantial to warrant a decrease in the provision for nuclear fuel, either in Europe or in the United Kingdom?

Mr. Benn

It is difficult to say. Nuclear fuel is, in part, competing with oil, gas and coal as well as alternative sources and conservation. At the moment the estimate is that alternative sources of fuel will give us only about 10 million tonnes of coal equivalent by the year 2000. It may be that one or other of the areas on which we are now working will become more promising and permit of more development, and that might be able to carry our electricity-bearing load.

Mr. Grimond

Do I understand from the Secretary of State's previous answer that our programme of investigation into alternative sources of energy is entirely separate from the European programme and that it does not contribute towards what we are doing? May I ask whether we contribute towards the European programme and what benefit we have had from that programme so far?

Mr. Benn

There are various levels. There is the national programme, which every country has, the EEC programme and the International Energy Agency programme—the fluidised bed burning at Grimethorpe, for example, which is financed not by the EEC but by the IEA. We should pursue matters of alternative energy whenever we get the opportunity, but we must not assume that everything that is more expensive and done internationally is necessarily better than working within our own resources where, as in the case of alternative energy, climatic and other conditions vary according to the country concerned.