Assisted Places Scheme

HC Deb 19 December 1979 vol 976 cc617-9

12. Mr. Foulkes

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received regarding the Government's assisted places scheme as it affects Scotland.

Mr. Alexander Fletcher

About 25 letters have been received about the proposal, mainly from parents who are interested in the scheme.

Mr. Foulkes

Does the Minister agree that because of the distorted geographical distribution of the schools—most of them being in the East of Scotland, and nearly 40 per cent. of the places being in Edinburgh—the taxpayers of the West of Scotland, including Ayrshire, will effectively be subsidising the privileged education of the petty bourgeoisie of the city of Edinburgh? What will he do to alter this position?

Mr. Fletcher

The hon. Member has certainly changed his coat since he had to flee from Edinburgh politics a few months ago. I take the point that traditionally the distribution of schools is not as good as it might be. We hope that as the scheme comes into being there will be further opportunities for schools in other parts of Scotland to take advantage of it and provide a better choice for parents.

Mr. Donald Stewart

Does the Minister accept that if anyone wishes to set up a private school and fund it 100 per cent. from his own resources it would be a denial of democracy to stop him from doing so? However, does he further accept that the types of schools that have been discussed are half State and half private, and therefore the State part is robbery from the public purse?

Mr. Fletcher

I do not agree with the right hon. Gentleman's last point. I am glad that he accepts the point that, just as people should be free to set up independent schools if they wish, so parents should be free, regardless of their means, to take the opportunity to send their children to these schools if they wish to do so.

Mr. Sproat

Does my hon. Friend agree that what we have just heard from the Opposition Benches, particularly from the hon. Member for South Ayrshire (Mr. Foulkes), is a grotesque misrepresentation of the purpose of the scheme? Is it not clear that the hon. Member has not even read the opening sentence of the document, which says quite clearly that the objective of the scheme is to provide an option for able children from lower income families?

Mr. Fletcher

My hon. Friend is absolutely correct. So many Labour Members are annoyed by the fact that the whole object of the scheme is to help lower income families—the very people whom they always claim to look after.

Mr. Canavan

If it is the declared intention of the Tory Government to cut out all non-essential public expenditure, what possible justification is there for taking away meals, milk and transport from the 95 per cent. of children who attend State schools in order to give an extra £60 million a year to the privileged, private fee-paying schools, which cater for a minority of the population? Will the Minister give us an assurance that before he comes to an ultimate decision on this matter it will be debated adequately on the Floor of the House?

Mr. Fletcher

It is a great pity that the hon. Member for West Stirlingshire (Mr. Canavan) is unable to get to his feet in this House without grossly exaggerating his points. We are not taking meals and transport away from children in the State sector. We are allowing the local authorities greater discretion.

Mr. Lang

Is it not astonishing that Labour Members, so many of whom have had privileged education, are now so anxious to kick away the ladder which children from under-privileged homes might have the opportunity to climb?

Mr. Fletcher

My hon. Friend is absolutely right.

Mr. Harry Ewing

Is the Minister aware that when the Labour Party returns to power we shall immediately abolish this scheme? Will he make that clear when he is having discussions on the matter? Is he further aware that his assisted places scheme has no supporters whatsoever in the educational world in Scotland? Will he give every child in Scotland the best possible Christmas present by resigning before he ruins Scottish education?

Mr. Fletcher

The hon. Member makes abundantly clear the well-known fact that under Labour Governments the less well-off people in this country are always worse off.