HC Deb 04 May 1978 vol 949 cc440-2
Q1. Mr. Nicholas Winterton

asked the Prime Minister if he now has any plans to visit Rhodesia.

The Prime Minister (Mr. James Callaghan)

I have no plans to visit Rhodesia.

Mr. Winterton

When the Prime Minister finds the courage to visit Rhodesia, may I ask him whether he is aware that he will find a country which is prosperous and peaceful, where black, brown and white people live and work together? Will he therefore support the internal settlement, which, for all its possible deficiencies, is a dramatic advance on the situation 12 months ago and which will lead to black majority rule at the end of the year? Or is the Prime Minister—

Mr. John Mendelson

Speech.

Mr. Winterton

—wishing to see the hammer and sickle of Soviet-Marxist motivated and manipulated tyranny stamped on yet another African country?

The Prime Minister

That seems to be more a declaration of faith than a question. The position is clear for the Government. I would go part of the way with the hon. Gentleman in saying that the position has advanced a lot since 12 months ago. It is a pity that what has happened did not happen 12 months ago, and it is a great pity that the hon. Gentleman was not encouraging people to go as far as that 12 months ago. What is also pretty clear is that this internal advance does not act as a substitute for the Anglo-American proposals and that the internal advance is certainly not sufficient to reconcile some of the most prominent nationalists in Zimbabwe. The best thing is that they should get together, preferably on the basis of the proposals that we have made, to try to ensure peaceful progress for the new Zimbabwe on the basis of majority rule.

Sir G. de Freitas

Will my right hon. Friend, if he has the chance, remind the blacks and whites concerned, inside and outside Rhodesia, that today, 15 years after the independence of Kenya, blacks and whites live and work together under the rule of law under a black Government in Kenya?

The Prime Minister

My right hon. Friend has considerable experience on this matter, having been High Commissioner in Kenya and responsible in the early days for much of the progress that took place. I hope that what he has said will be heard in Salisbury.

Mrs. Kellett-Bowman

In the time that the Prime Minister saves by not visiting Rhodesia, may I ask him to consider the idea of using some now disused open prisons, as weekend prisons for adult offenders—a matter about which I wrote to the Home Secretary? [Interruption.] Does he accept—

Mr. Speaker

Order. I could not hear the hon. Lady properly. Was she asking about Rhodesia?

Mrs. Kellett-Bowman

I was asking about the time the Prime Minister is saving by not visiting Rhodesia and seeking to ask the Prime Minister a question which I have already put to the Home Secretary.

Mr. Fairbairn

On the subject of Rhodesia, may I ask the Prime Minister to direct his attention to those black people there whom the hunger campaigns are trying to help and who are not receiving financial assistance from the British Government? Could he tell us, now that events have advanced as much as they have, whether the Government are willing to give aid for Freedom From Hunger in Rhodesia, which is working for black people, since to deny it on political grounds to such people but not to deny it to the people of Vietnam on political grounds seems an indescribable discrimination?

The Prime Minister

The hon. and learned Gentleman has raised an important question. There is to be a debate on Rhodesia today, and I hope that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs will be able to say something about it then.

Mr. Whitehead

As one of the places where black and white seem unable to work together in Rhodesia is in the interim Government under the so-called internal settlement, will my right hon. Friend seek an early opportunity to see the Minister who was so peremptorily dismissed from that Government, who can tell him and the House what a mockery the settlement is?

The Prime Minister

I do not wish to intervene in this matter. If my right hon. Friend thinks it necessary to see him, I am sure that he will do so.