HC Deb 18 January 1978 vol 942 cc433-4
7. Mr. Alexander Fletcher

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement about his proposals for a council for tertiary education in Scotland.

Mr. McElhone

I refer to the reply which my right hon. Friend gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow. Pollok (Mr. White) yesterday.

Mr. Fletcher

Is the Minister aware that we welcome the reply to which he has just referred? Does he agree that there is no need to wait for devolution to set up this council, as the proposal has widespread support in Scotland?

Is he aware that we hope to submit our comments on this scheme? Meanwhile, will he agree to drop this awful word "tertiary" and try to find something simpler and more straightforward, such as "higher", so that the people can understand and realise what the proposals are all about?

Mr. McElhone

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kind welcome to the proposed council. I shall certainly consider his point about the word "tertiary". It is understood by most people in education. I hope that all hon. Members will submit views on the whole question of this council.

Mrs. Bain

There is broad general agreement in Scotland that this council should be established, and the proposal has been welcomed by various education bodies in the post-school sector. Does the Minister accept that a crucial education matter, which must be dealt with quickly, is the problem of further education lecturers who still have not had their pay anomalies straiightened out?

Mr. McElhone

That is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment.

Mr. Rifkind

Will the Minister indicate whether the Government will be giving support to the Bill which has been introduced by my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh, West (Lord James Douglas-Hamilton), in view of the support that this Bill has received from all sides of the House and from all education bodies in Scotland?

Mr. William Ross

Wait and see.

Mr. McElhone

We should wait and see how the council is set up. I am always grateful for help and advice from my right hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Ross). I think that most hon. Members would agree that to set up an investigation into further or higher education at the same time as setting up a council would be a duplication of effort and a great waste of time. In my opinion, looking at the history of education, every time we have a problem there is a cry for a council investigation. If I accepted all the cries for investigations, there would no education at all in Scotland.

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