§ 5. Mr. George Rodgersasked the Secretary of State for Transport what response he has had from representatives of local authorities about his circular on the provision of concessionary fares to retirement pensioners and disabled people.
§ Mr. HoramThe circular was issued on 13th January and it is too early to judge the response of local authorities. I hope that where necessary they will introduce new or improved concessionary fares schemes as suggested in the circular.
§ Mr. RodgersIs my hon. Friend aware that the proposition originally given by his Department was that no new or modified scheme should be introduced, and that that advice was welcomed by organisations representing the aged and disabled? Does he accept that there are many mean-minded authorities which have no schemes, or inadequate schemes, for the elderly and disabled? What steps can he take to persuade local authorities to be a little more generous?
§ Mr. HoramI am grateful for my hon. Friend's remarks. He will be interested to know that there are 56 districts with no scheme at all, and that of that total 23 districts are Conservative-controlled; none is Labour-controlled. Opposition Members would well advised to talk to some of their local authorities and to take our advice in introducing schemes for the elderly, the disabled and the blind.
§ Sir A. MeyerDoes the Minister agree that it is far better for the transport operators themselves to operate generous off-peak schemes for the disabled and pensioners than to use the rates to subsidise some people when there may be others who are in greater need?
§ Mr. HoramNo, I do not agree. The operators have difficulties already in meeting their existing obligations without our seeking to put upon them the onus of bringing in concessionary fares. We have a well-established situation in respect of concessionary fares, but there have been difficulties because some local authorities, mainly Conservative, are refusing to operate schemes. I hope that they will reconsider their position in the light of the Government's attitude.
§ Mr. WatkinsonDoes my hon. Friend accept that there is a great deal of ill feeling in certain county areas because some authorities run schemes whereas others do not? Does he consider it appropriate that when county plans are drawn up there should be an effort to ensure, within a county boundary, that schemes of a similar nature are running in each part of that county?
§ Mr. HoramMy hon. Friend makes a good suggestion. It causes bitterness when people in one area have a good scheme and others in a contiguous area have no scheme. Therefore, I urge county authorities to consider the matter.
§ Mr. RidsdaleIs the Minister aware that I am astonished at the hypocrisy on the Labour Benches? They are suggesting to Conservative councils that they should cut back on rate support grant—this applies especially to Essex, where the figure is 8p in the pound—rather than suggesting that we should have a national scheme that would be fairer throughout the country.
§ Mr. HoramWe have made it plain that public money for bus services is available and that nobody will go short of money for a reasonable service. Equally, we have made it plain that there is more money available for concessionary fare schemes. A total of £4 million is set aside for this purpose in the next financial year, and a sum of £25 million until the end of the decade. It is clear that the onus is on local authorities to take advantage of this situation. There is no hypocrisy on the Government side. I am worried about the hypocrisy on the Conservative side.