HC Deb 01 February 1978 vol 943 cc436-9
6. Mr. Crawford

asked the Secretary of State for Transport when he next intends to meet the Chairman of the British Railways Board.

20. Mrs. Bain

asked the Secretary of State for Transport when he next expects to meet the Chairman of British Railways.

32. Mr. Durant

asked the Secretary of State for Transport when he next expects to meet the Chairman of British Railways.

Mr. William Rodgers

On Friday.

Mr. Crawford

Will the Minister tell the Chairman of British Rail when he sees him on Friday that in Scotland the state of rolling stock—locomotives and coaches—is an asbolute, total and utter disgrace? Will he tell the chairman to do something about it?

Mr. Rodgers

The hon. Gentleman is exaggerating. We are all aware—I hope that the hon. Gentleman will not be too narrow-minded about this—that it is not only in Scotland that problems arise for British Rail about renewing rolling stock. British Rail has made it clear that it would like a higher level of investment. It can have a higher level of investment only with a higher level of public expenditure. I shall certainly draw the chairman's attention to the hon. Gentleman's remarks.

Mrs. Bain

In connection with the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for Perth and East Perthshire (Mr. Crawford), will the Minister bear in mind that representations have also been made by the various unions involved with the railways about the rolling stock in Scotland? Will he also discuss with the Chairman of British Rail the fact that the Strathclyde Regional Council has estimated that it needs £325 million to implement a decent bus service for the West of Scotland? Will he bear in mind that his Government have enforced public expenditure cuts that were endorsed by the official Opposition? Will he now increase the level of central Government funding for public transport?

Mr. Rodgers

The hon. Lady is getting rather shrill. Those of us who discuss these problems in transport debates—I do not think that the hon. Lady always attends them—are familiar with the problems of British Rail, such as the tolerable levels of investment and the need to renew locomotives and rolling stock. We shall do the best we can.

Mr. Durant

When he is next discussing with the Chairman of British Rail the whole question of pricing policy on fares, will the Minister try to encourage a more flexible approach? That is something that could help the whole commuter situation, especially with more local decision about fares.

Mr. Rodgers

I am not sure what the hon. Gentleman means by "flexibility". My instinct is to agree with him. I ought to say that it is one of those matters on which there are two arguments. There are those who would argue that at the moment there is too great a variety of fares on British Rail. This causes confusion in the minds of passengers. A balance must be struck. Certainly local views should be taken into account.

Mr. Robin F. Cook

When my right hon. Friend meets the Chairman of British Rail on Friday, as a good European will he draw Mr. Parker's attention to the recommendation of the European Parliament last year and the resolution of the Council of Europe only last week calling for the creation of a Channel Tunnel? Will he encourage British Rail to continue its study of a modest project within an attainable financial target?

Mr. Rodgers

This is one of the matters that go far beyond the responsibility of the Chairman of British Rail. It is something that has been discussed in the House from time to time and no doubt will be discussed again. The chairman is aware that a rail connection with the Continent would have advantages for British Railways as well as for others.

Mr. Powell

When the Minister meets the Chairman of British Rail, will he review with him the progress on the projects—I think that there are at least three of them—for speeding up and widening the rail links between Great Britain and Ulster, something which, incidentally, would have the effect of increasing the utilisation of British Rail capacity?

Mr. Rodgers

I am sure that the chairman will note the right hon. Gentleman's remarks—as he does all things said in the House about British Rail—and will take them into account.

Mr. Bryan Davies

Will the Minister congratulate the Chairman of British Rail on using the word "cascade" for the process of dumping old rolling stock on commuter lines in the London area? Will he tell the chairman that many of my commuters are rather fed up with that process?

Mr. Rodgers

It is a rather beautiful euphemism for the process that my hon. Friend describes, but he puts his finger on the problem that, with limited scope for investment and a long life for wagons and rolling stock, a use must be found for them. I know that the chairman is anxious to improve the quality of service on commuter lines, and he will continue to do all that he can.

Mr. Penhaligon

Does the Minister intend to discuss with the chairman the panic that may well descend on the railway network should the petrol deliveries strike come to fruition? Will he tell the House what other measures he is taking to deal with the situation?

Mr. Rodgers

The hon. Gentleman's question goes very wide, but I think that the Chairman of British Rail and all of us will take note of the present situation and do our best to manage with it, conserving fuel wherever we can.

Mr. Fry

As the Secretary of State has publicly denied the existence of any letter from himself to the Chairman of British Rail about the manning of type 56 locos, will he confirm that neither he nor his Department has given any advice to the Chairman of British Rail on this subject?

Mr. Rodgers

I shall rest on what I said previously in public, that there is no question of my giving directions of this kind to the Chairman of British Rail. The question of productivity generally arises later on in the Order Paper.