HC Deb 13 December 1978 vol 960 cc634-6
4. Mr. MacCormick

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is satisfied with the present arrangements for the imprisonment of those convicted of murder or other violent crimes who are found to have serious personality disorders.

The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Bruce Milian)

Some prisoners who suffer from serious personality disorders may from time to time present problems of management. I am satisfied that the arrangements for the custody of such prisoners provide adequate protection for the public.

Mr. MacCormick

Does the Secretary of State agree, however, that his reply indicates that there might be a gap in the system and that something ought to exist between ordinary prisoners and the State hospital at Carstairs for dealing with people such as this? We appreciate that the public are safeguarded, but we ought to think also of the needs of these prisoners.

Mr. Milian

I think that the number of prisoners who present very serious problems because of personality disorders is quite small. They are, of course, in prison. I am not sure that the case has been made out for some special kind of accommodation for these prisoners, but Carstairs exists for dealing with prisoners in appropriate cases and we transfer prisoners there from time to time. It is very difficult to make sure that we have the right kind of accommodation for every kind of personality disorder that might manifest itself in prisoners.

Mr. Buchan

On the wider question of other prisoners convicted of violent crimes, has my right hon. Friend considered the possibility of the extension of the special unit elsewhere? What lessons has he learnt from it?

Secondly, will my right hon. Friend guarantee that he will not bring back into use the infamous cages at Inverness?

Mr. Milan

On the second point, there is a Question a little later on the Order Paper. On the first point, I have recently offered both the SPOA and the prison governors the opportunity to discuss whether we should have special units within the prison system, either on the Barlinnie special unit lines or on any other lines that they may suggest to us. That matter is under active consideration.

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

Does the right hon. Gentleman acknowledge that the special unit at Barlinnie has served an extremely important purpose within the Scottish prison service and that its success is an example to prison services elsewhere? Will the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that he will keep his mind open on how this unit develops and whether there ought to be other units with a slightly more psychiatric bent, without, perhaps, going to the length of the State hospital in Carstairs?

Mr. Millan

I accept what the hon. Gentleman said in the first part of his question, but, unfortunately, there are certain prisoners who have been sent to the Barlinnie special unit but have not settled down there. The unit has not proved suitable for them. It is extremely difficult to get the right kind of provision for the comparatively few very troublesome prisoners that we have in the system at present.

Mr. Henderson

Is the Secretary of State aware that in Peterhead prison we have a very large number of prisoners serving long sentences and that this imposes a very heavy strain on the prison officers who are working in what can only be described as nineteenth century conditions? Is the Secretary of State able to tell us what plans he has for the future of Peterhead prison to make the officers' work more effective and more congenial?

Mr. Millan

I cannot say offhand what plans there might be for Peterhead, but I am aware that there are some very difficult prisoners in there. I am also aware that they are handled extremely well.

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