HC Deb 12 December 1978 vol 960 cc219-21
9. Mr. Macfarlane

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when she next plans to meet the chairman of the Science Research Council.

Mrs. Shirley Williams

I meet the chairman frequently. He was present yesterday at a press conference which I held about my decision to increase the planned totals for the science budget substantially over the next four years. I shall meet him again on 18th December when I open the new headquarters building of the Science Research Council and the Natural Environment Research Council in Swindon.

Mr. Macfarlane

I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for that answer. Is she aware that, although that increase is most welcome in many quarters, the fact is that it is £47 million spread over four years and among six or seven sources? Will she ensure that her Department constantly keep under review the budget of the Science Research Council? We do not want to return to the conditions of the past three or four years during which time the morale within the science arena has declined extremely badly. What assurances is she able to give to the House on this important subject for Britain?

Mrs. Williams

I do not think that I need to give assurances, because the facts speak for themselves. We have now turned the corner and we are back to a state of steady growth for the science research budget, which I believe to be crucial. I wonder how the hon. Gentleman can reconcile his pressure on this issue with his own party's commitment to cut further public expenditure.

Mr. Spearing

Will my right hon. Friend tell the House whether she is completely satisfied that the priorities of the Science Research Council are those of the nation as a whole, and whether the council on its own is capable of assigning the priorities of the scientific manpower available in Britain to the needs that she and the country desire?

Mrs. Williams

Yes. I have taken a great deal of interest in the Science Research Council. I have not the slightest doubt that the emphasis on the development of engineering methods, microprocessor systems, teaching companies, and co-operative awards between science research and industry is absolutely in line with national priorities. In my view, the council is doing a remarkable job for the country.

12. Mr. Hooley

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what expansion or contraction of funds for the Science Research Council is envisaged in each of the next three financial years.

Mrs. Shirley Williams

As I announced yesterday in reply to a question from my hon. Friend the Member for Earn-worth (Mr. Roper), I intend, subject to parliamentary approval, to allocate £149.7 million at 1978 survey prices to the Science Research Council in 1979–80, compared with £145.9 million in 1978–79. I have accepted the advice of the Advisory Board for the Research Councils that the council's planning guidelines for the following three years should improve progressively to reach a growth of 1 per cent. in 1982–83, compared with the annual decline of 1.7 per cent. which was forecast at the beginning of this year.

Mr. Hooley

Is the Secretary of State aware that the reversal of the decline is welcome? However, that decline in itself was a sad error of policy. Is she satisfied that the sums now available will enable the Science Research Council to discharge all its national obligations satisfactorily, as well as discharging its international obligations?

Mrs. Williams

Yes, I have the assurance of the chairman of the council to this effect. It will take a little time to turn round what was a prospect of decline into a prospect of growth. Meanwhile, I assure my hon. Friend that the other research councils will be growing quite rapidly. The chairman of the Science Research Council is very satisfied with the profile that now exists.

Mr. Gwynfor Evans

Is the Secretary of State aware that Wales is almost empty of scientific research institutions and as a result our ablest young scientists have had to leave our country? Will she take steps to correct this discrimination against Wales?

Mrs. Williams

I assure the hon. Member that I shall be pleased to look into this matter. I have studied the distribution of research expenditure, which is very much in line with the pattern of population in the United Kingdom as a whole.