HC Deb 12 December 1978 vol 960 cc218-9
8. Mr. Haselhurst

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what representations she has received about the establishment of a coherent programme of education and training for 16 to 19year-olds; and if she will make a statement.

Mr. Oakes

My right hon. Friend has received representations from the local authority associations and a variety of professional and other organisations concerned with the education and training of 16 to 19-year-olds. She has already announced the Government's intention to publish next year a White Paper covering the full range of education and training opportunities available to 16 to 19-year-olds, and recently discussed with the ACC and the AMA arrangements for a joint review of major policy areas to be dealt with in the White Paper.

Mr. Haselhurst

Will it not be impossible to devise an effective programme that is properly co-ordinated for the 16 to 19-year-olds until we have brought education and training together in one Department, a Department of Education and Training?

Mr. Oakes

I do not think that the answer is to deal with Departments in that way. The 16 to 19-year-olds do not form one coherent group. Their needs are diverse, and because of that it is important to have a system that is flexible and can respond quickly to certain aspects of young people's needs.

Mr. Gerry Fowler

Does my hon. Friend agree that while the needs of young people in this age group are diverse they cannot be categorised and assigned at the age of 16 years to a particular programme or to the responsibility of a particular Department? Does he agree that flexibility is essential in the system and that that means coherent planning?

Mr. Oakes

It means coherent planning, but not in the way that the hon. Member for Saffron Walden (Mr. Haselhurst) suggested in his supplementary question.

Dr. Hampson

The Secretary of State keeps making the accusation that the staying-on rate in Britain is one of the lowest in Europe. Is the Minister aware that there will be some concern on both sides of the House if the position is as bad as she makes out? What is the basis of the charge, because in the hon. Gentleman's reply to a question a fortnight ago he said that nine out of the 10 countries listed have no up-to-date figures beyond 1970? He remarked that the differences in definition that underlie the figures make comparisons ineffective and inapposite.

Mr. Oakes

Different countries' statistics are prepared in different ways. However, the staying-on rate in Britain is bad. It is about 30 per cent. That is an average. It is much worse in some areas. It is much worse in working class areas and among working class children.