SECRETARY OF STATE FOR EMPLOYMENT (Hansard, 17 November 1977)

§ Q2. Mr. Michael Latham
asked the Prime Minister whether he will dismiss the Secretary of State for Employment.

§ The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave to the hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Mr. McCrindle) on 8th November.

§ Mr. Latham
Is not unemployment the fatal electoral dagger at the heart of the Government? [Interruption.] It is no laughing matter. Is not the crude political reality of "Back to Work with Labour" that in February 1974 550,000 people were unemployed in this country, and that now there are 1.4 million out of work?

§ The Prime Minister
Whether or not it is an electoral dagger, it is a figure that is totally unacceptable to any Member in this House or anyone in this country —and that goes far wider than electoral considerations. That is why the Government's policies, both internally and internationally, are directed towards trying to get action that will reduce these figures. Internally, as the hon. Gentleman knows, we have taken a great many measures that have had the effect, even 758 at the present time, of saving more than 300,000 jobs.
I would say in conclusion that, with respect, it does not lie in the mouths of the Opposition Front Bench to attack us on matters of this kind when the right hon. Member for Leeds, North-East (Sir K. Joseph) says that all rescues and all subsidies do great harm, because if that policy were adopted the unemployment figure would be a lot higher.

§ Mr. Pavitt
May I, in complete opposition to the question asked by the hon. Member for Melton (Mr. Latham), ask my right hon. Friend to convey the thanks of the Government and Back Benchers to the Secretary of State for Employment and his Department for the way in which, quietly and determinedly, for 12 months he has dealt with the Grunwick dispute, and, secondly, to thank him on behalf of the people in the area for the efforts he has made to cool down and conciliate a very difficult situation?

§ The Prime Minister
Yes, Sir. My right hon. Friend has done a great deal in everything that he has tackled in relation to the Grunwick dispute to try to get a fair and reasonable settlement of it. I think that what he has done commands the support of nearly everybody in the country, except, perhaps, some prejudiced Opposition Members.

§ Mr. Prior
How does the Prime Minister reconcile his statements now about increases in wages of over 10 per cent. leading to increasing unemployment with the reality of 1974–75 when wages were going up by 20 per cent. and 30 per cent. and when, apparently, according to the Government, that had nothing to do with the rate of unemployment?

§ The Prime Minister
That is not what has ever been argued on this matter.

§ Mr. Pardoe
I recognise that the Prime Minister is right in saying that the present level of unemployment is unacceptable, but does he recognise that there is a mood of defeatism about the level of unemployment throughout the Western economies? Has he considered President Carter's proposals for changing welfare and unemployment benefits, which would mean that the Government would pay people to work rather than for unemployment? Does he recognise that the Governments 759 of Western economies, including the British economy, have to become the employer of last resort if unemployment is to be defeated?

§ The Prime Minister
I think it is the case that the leaders of the industrialised Western countries do not yet have a clear view of how to overcome the problem of 16 million unemployed, which I think is to a large extent caused by having large OPEC surpluses combined with a large and rapidly increasing Japanese surplus, both of which are having a seriously deflationary effect in the Western world. It is a problem to which we have to turn our attention, but it is easier to analyse than to prescribe a solution.

§ Mr. Heffer
Is my right hon. Friend aware that many of us on the Government side—most of us, I think—feel that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment has done a first-class job within the limits of the policy of the Government in relation to these matters, and that my right hon. Friend, through the imaginative schemes for job creation and so on, has helped considerably to put people to work but that, nevertheless, that in itself is not enough? Can my right hon. Friend indicate what further steps the Government intend to take to bring down the levels of unemployment?

An Hon. Member
Give him a job.

§ The Prime Minister
No, that would not do it either—hardly at all. I agree entirely with my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Walton (Mr. Heffer) about the work of the Secretary of State for Employment. The Secretary of State for Employment has done a remarkable job. Indeed, the new training schemes have aroused a great deal of interest in other Western industrialised countries, especially the scheme to provide for young people to have either further training or further education. We shall continue to do what we can as regards the future levels of unemployment. As my hon. Friend knows, there has been an addition of public expenditure—with which I assume the Tory Party would not agree —of £400 million to help the construction industry. We shall continue to take whatever measures are necessary, consistent with reducing the rate of inflation.