HC Deb 17 November 1977 vol 939 cc737-9
1. Mr. Luce

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will make a statement on the use of children in pornographic material.

33. Mr. McCrindle

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he plans to introduce legislation prohibiting the use of young children in pornographic films.

The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Merlyn Rees)

I share the revulsion of most people at the use of children in pornography. Although the Williams Committee is already reviewing the laws on obscenity, I am looking at the particular problem of child pornography to see whether there are any aspects in which the law needs to be strengthened before the Committee reports. I should add that my information so far does not seem to reveal a significant problem with which the law is powerless to deal.

Mr. Luce

As there is widespread public anxiety about the long-term effects upon a child of corrupt sexual practices, and as, equally, one such example of that is the exploitation of children in the production of pornographic material, does the Home Secretary agree that this is an area in which he himself can take urgent and immediate action rather than refer it to the laborious procedures of the Williams Committee, which was established to review the laws on obscenity?

Mr. Rees

That is precisely what I said. The Williams Committee is the long-term approach, but I am prepared to look at the matter again. I am advised by the Director of Public Prosecutions that offences which might not be caught by existing legislation rarely occur and that in the small number in which there are difficulties, at which I am now looking, there are real difficulties of definition. I am advised that if legislation is not properly drawn up—it is not just a question of definition—it would catch a parent taking a picture of his child on the rug in front of the fire when it was a few months old. How on earth one draws up a Bill which exempts normal pictures of that kind is, I am told, a rather difficult matter.

Mr. McCrindle

Is it not clear that even those of us who take a fairly liberal view of what people may see and do in private feel that there is a special responsibility to protect minors in this loathsome trade? On the question of parents, is it not clear that the need for us to extend protection very often stems from the fact that children are put into such pornographic films and literature with the approval of the parents?

Mr. Rees

I think that the last point is right. I fully understand the hon. Gentleman's point about liberality, but I have no liberality in this matter. It is wrong and ought to be dealt with.

Mr. George Rodgers

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied with the level of psychiatric treatment available in prisons in cases where people are sentenced for this ghastly activity?

Mr. Rees

I shall check on that. When I have made inquiries previously, I have found that there is a problem of people in prison who are mentally ill. That is a problem about which we ought to do something, but that is a wider issue. I have no reason to believe that there is a problem in respect of the issue raised by my hon. Friend but I shall look at the matter.

Mr. Whitelaw

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that there will be widespread support throughout the House for his decision that if action has to be taken it will be taken in advance of the report of the Williams Committee? Does he further appreciate that if he finds it necessary to make an amendment to the law the House will be ready to support him, and to do so quickly?

Mr. Rees

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for saying that. He has it absolutely right about the short and the long term. With regard to the short term, I sometimes receive letters from people who, I think, miss the point. It they have an example of pornography, from a shop or elsewhere, they should go to the police with it. The police are the agents for dealing with this matter under the law. They act in different parts of the country in different ways, because this is a matter for decision by the chief constable concerned.