HC Deb 16 November 1977 vol 939 cc557-60
10. Mr. Viggers

asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he will announce his plans for the financial reorganisation of the National Freight Corporation; and whether he will make a statement.

15. Mr. Robin F. Cook

asked the Secretary of State for Transport when he expects to introduce legislation to change the financial structure of the National Freight Corporation.

32. Mr. Grist

asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he will announce his plans for the financial reorganisation of the National Freight Corporation; and whether he will make a statement.

35. Mr. Spriggs

asked the Secretary of State for Transport when he expects to introduce legislation to change the financial structure of the National Freight Corporation.

Mr. William Rodgers

I refer the hon. Members and my hon. Friends to the Written Answer that I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Derby, South (Mr. Johnson) on Monday 14th November 1977.

Mr. Viggers

In connection with this financial reconstruction, has the Secretary of State seen Press reports today which claim that he is to take control of Freightliners away from the National Freight Corporation and give it to British Rail? The Press reports speculate that this is partly in order to appease the rail unions and the Labour Party conference. Is any of this true? If so, what regard has the Secretary of State paid to the customers' interests?

Mr. Rodgers

I do not think that I have ever appeased the Labour Party conference, for better or for ill. I have read the Press reports, but Ministers have made no decision on this matter yet.

Mr. Cook

Will the Secretary of State take note that he will not still demands for positive investment simply by transferring Freightliners to British Rail? Is he aware, however, that many of us would welcome such a transfer as a positive step and regard it as a return to British Railways of control of the market for services that they provide and for which they must bear the investment costs?

Mr. Rodgers

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his congratulations for a decision that I have not yet made.

Mr. Grist

In view of the fact that the Corporation operates in a competitive sector and may well become profitable, would it not be sensible, instead of arguing about a transfer between various sections of the nationalised sector, to return the business to the private sector?

Mr. Rodgers

I welcome what I interpreted as the hon. Member's kind remarks about the National Freight Corporation, which is an efficient and very successful body. However, it does have its problems, which are well recognised by the House. These are concerned mainly with certain parts of the business inherited some years ago. My concern has always been that the National Freight Corporation should function efficiently without subsidy for its freight operations.

Mr. Spriggs

Does the Secretary of State agree that if he approves the transfer of the NFC to the management of the British Railways Board it will be a step in the right direction, towards an integrated transport policy?

Mr. Rodgers

I do not think that any proposal has been made for the transfer of the whole of the NFC. There are arguments for transferring Freightliners, which I acknowledge, but when Freightliners was placed with the NFC it was with a view to a successful intermodal operation. I pay tribute to Sir Dan Pettit and his board for the success that they have had in recent years.

Mr. Gow

Does the Minister recall that the Chairman of the National Freight Corporation, in the annual report two years ago, described the financial structure of the Corporation as being a bad practice, reminiscent of medieval usury?

Mr. Rodgers

Yes, I remember it well.

Mr. James Johnson

Will the Secretary of State be shocked to be told that the views of the hon. Member for Gosport (Mr. Viggers) coincide with my views and with the views of all Labour Members who have a Freightliner depot in their constituency? Will he also be shocked to know that all but a few of the employees to whom I have spoken in the West Hull depot believe that the accountancy of Freightliners is open to suspicion and inspection? Will he think again about hiving off this non-road sector of the NFC?

Mr. Rodgers

Yes, certainly. It is not an easy decision. Most of these decisions are difficult to make, because one has to bear in mind the need for efficient operation, to provide employment and meet national needs. We shall bear in mind all that my hon. Friend said.

Mr. Moate

The-Minister will remember that the Labour Party conference rejected the Government's White Paper on transport. Will he, in turn, disregard the advice given to him by that conference about transferring Freightliners to British Rail? What steps has he taken to consult those very important people, the consumers and the users? How long will this appalling uncertainty continue?

Mr. Rodgers

I think debate has gone on too long, but for that reason everybody has had an opportunity to express a point of view. I would not dissent from the view that Ministers should make up their minds soon.