HC Deb 16 November 1977 vol 939 cc571-2
21. Mr. Cronin

asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he will take action to prevent laybys being used for long periods as dwelling places by itinerants.

Mr. Horam

Itinerants are not moved from trunk road laybys unless their presence creates safety problems or there is a suitable permanent site available to accommodate them.

Mr. Cronin

Will my hon. Friend give more serious consideration to this problem, because near Castle Donington in my constituency, for example, some laybys are in a revolting, filthy condition and some of the itinerants occupying them have markedly anti-social and sometimes criminal propensities? The problem requires careful consideration.

Mr. Horam

I shall certainly look carefully at what my hon. Friend has said, but we must be careful not to move people on if there are no suitable sites provided for them by the appropriate county council.

Mr. Temple-Morris

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is a real problem, not least in the rural areas? Will he consult the Secretary of State for the Environment about action that should be taken generally on this problem, and not least the implementation of the Cripps proposals?

Mr. Horam

I agree that action should be taken, but often the lack of action by county councils and the lack of provision of suitable sites mean that it is only right to allow people to stay where they are.

Mr. John Ellis

When my hon. Friend looks at these local matters, will he differentiate in his value judgment between local authorities which have spent money on providing suitable facilities for itinerants and those which have sat on their bottoms and done nothing?

Mr. Horam

There is a vast discrepancy between local authorities which have provided a number of sites and those which have provided none or the minimum required by law. I am aware of the problem.

Sir J. Langford-Holt

In order to clarify the position, can the hon. Gentleman explain the purpose of a layby?

Mr. Horam

As a matter of fact, the layby referred to by my hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Mr. Cronin) is not a layby in the normal sense. It is a piece of road which has been superseded by a new road, and that is why the itinerants have been allowed to continue using it. Generally, I agree that where a layby performs its usual functions itinerants should not be allowed to stay there.