Bus and Lorry Drivers

HC Deb 16 November 1977 vol 939 cc568-71

20. Mr. Fry

asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he will make a statement on the implementation of EEC regulations on drivers' hours.

31. Mr. Moate

asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he will make a statement on his negotiation in the EEC on drivers' hours and other related matters.

Mr. William Rodgers

I refer the hon. Members to the answer I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Leicester, East (Mr. Bradley) on Friday 4th November.

Mr. Fry

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, as a result of the recent agreement in Brussels, very short notice has been given regarding the imposition of the 450-km rule and that this will cause considerable problems for the road haulage industry, which will need to reschedule its journeys? Does he propose to do anything to recognise these difficulties? Can he confirm that the Government and not the bureaucrats in Brussels will be responsible for the timetable for phasing in the new drivers' hours regulations?

Mr. Rodgers

I appreciate what the hon. Gentleman says about the 450-km limit and the difficulties facing the industry. We should be happy to discuss any problems with the industry. Most people believe that we achieved considerable success in Brussels on this occasion in reaching agreement in principle to a three-year period of implementation, which was something that we were uncertain about achieving. Discussions are taking place with the Commission on the phasing of that implementation. The House would not wish me to say anything that might prejudice a satisfactory outcome.

Mr. Moate

The right hon. Gentleman's recent Written Answer disguised the fact that the 450-km limit would be coming in on 1st January and would not be subject to a three-year transitional period. Does not this undermine the transitional arrangements on drivers' hours, and is it not inconceivable that the industry could reorganise itself in the six or seven weeks before 1st January? Is it possible for enforcement to be deferred? Can the right hon. Gentleman assure us that we shall have a debate on this critical issue?

Mr. Rodgers

I am sorry if my Written Answer disguised anything. That was not my intention. I wished to summarise as briefly as I could the outcome of the discussions in Luxembourg that were regarded as successful. If the hon. Gentleman considers the matter carefully, he will find that the great bulk of the road haulage and bus industries are pleased. I have had letters and telegrams congratulating us on the outcome. If I can facilitate discussion in the House, I shall he happy to do so. I recognise that there will be problems for all parts of the industry from 1st January.

Mr. Gould

Does not our obligation to comply with the 450-km limit reduce considerably the value of the otherwise welcome concession that my right hon. Friend obtained on drivers' hours?

Mr. Rodgers

I do not think that the concession is, to use my hon. Friend's carefully formulated phrase, reduced considerably. It was never likely that we would achieve 100 per cent. success in the discussions, and until the meeting in Luxembourg it seemed possible that we would have to implement the provisions from 1st January without any staging at all. There has been a net gain.

Mrs. Winifred Ewing

What costings has the right hon. Gentleman made of the effects of the legislation in rural areas? Is he aware of the concern of small contractors, particularly in the North and West of Scotland, who fear that they may be put out of business by the implementation of these rules? Is there to be any exemption for such small contractors or for the carriage of livestock?

Mr. Rodgers

Such exemptions do not arise, but the point that the hon. Lady makes about remote areas was very much in my mind and in the mind of the House in seeking to get a transitional period of phased implementation. I am rather surprised that our achievement has not received a more general welcome in the House.

Mr. Raphael Tuck

Although I am normally an anti-harmonisationist, may I ask my hon. Friend whether he agrees that, in the interests of the implementation of EEC regulations and in the interests of safety, it would be advisable to make the use of tachographs compulsory?

Mr. Rodgers

There was an earlier Question on the Order Paper on that subject, but the hon. Member who tabled it was not here. It raises much wider issues than are covered in this Question. All I can say is that I do not propose any change in the position that I have previously adopted.

Mr. Dykes

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the recent halting of foreign drivers by police on motorways? Has he discussed this with the police, and does he draw any conclusions from it? Does he agree that, generally, the EEC is more stringent on hours while our vehicle safety regulations are more stringent than those in the rest of the Community? Could there not be a useful compromise in marrying these to get a package of controls for lorry drivers?

Mr. Rodgers

If the hon. Gentleman is asking whether we can learn from each other, the answer is "Yes". There are differences in enforcement, and our standards are rather higher than those in some other EEC countries. I should like to see high standards throughout the Community.