HC Deb 09 March 1977 vol 927 cc1380-1
1. Mr. Hardy

asked the Secretary of State for Transport what was the average cost in terms of ton/miles of moving bulk freight by each form of inland transport in each of the past two years; and what is his estimate of likely changes in cost in the immediate future.

The Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mr. John Horam)

Statistics in this form are not readily available. There are some figures of comparative expenditure on road and rail goods transport in paper 1 of volume 2 of the transport policy consultation document.

Mr. Hardy

Does the Minister realise that he did not mention inland waterway transportation? In view of the fact that it is potentially the least expensive form of movement of freight, will he consider it, and will he express a view on whether inland waterways should be the responsibility of his Department?

Mr. Horam

This is a very popular idea. My hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Mr. Crowther) suggested something similar when we last had transport Questions. However, I should point out that it would entail an enlargement of the transport empire, and there. fore I cannot possibly encourage it.

Mr. Walter Johnson

Is the Minister aware that at present competition is very unfair, because his Department has instructed British Rail to phase out its subsidy to the freight services, while at the same time juggernaut lorries in this country are being subsidised to the tune of £70 million a year on the motorways and roads? What does he intend to do about it?

Mr. Horam

My hon. Friend has hit on a subject of great current interest. I know that it is a matter of considerable concern that we reach a sensible conclusion on it. I am convinced that we muse look at the allocation of costs and get them right, and we shall do that in the White Paper.

Mr. Temple-Morris

Is the Minister aware that the fact that the figures are unavailable in the terms of this Question demonstrates the need to have specific figures, particularly for British Rail's various services, in order to assess where the taxpayers' money is going and where the losses and the gains are? Will the Minister keep this important fact in mind?

Mr. Horam

I understand the hon. Member's point, but it is not as simple as it sounds. There are a lot of figures on this subject and it is a question of which ones one chooses and which ones are relevant. Figures for freight transported by road, rail and waterways are relevant only if they are compared for a particular journey between specific points. If one compares figures for these three methods of transport generally, one brings in a number of other factors—for example, lorries tend to make shorter journeys than the railways, and that does bias the figures. This is a very complicated question, and these are some of the points that must be sorted out.