HC Deb 09 March 1977 vol 927 cc1381-2
2. Mr. Spearing

asked the Secretary of State for Transport what account he is taking of the comparative cost of family travel by car and rail in his White Paper proposals for transport.

Mr. Horam

In drawing up our White Paper we shall take full account of the needs of people and families, and of how far they can be met within the resources available.

Mr. Spearing

I am grateful for that reply. Does the Minister realise that this will take some effort on his Department's behalf? To travel from Custom House to Stratford and return for a family—assuming that that means two and a half fares—means a cost of £.1.38 for six miles. Does he also realise that, taking the House of Commons car allowance, the journey could be done for nearly half the cost by car? If this is true of short urban journeys it must also be true of longer journeys. Has the Department taken account of these facts in drawing up the White Paper?

Mr. Horam

I am aware of the concern arising in connection with services between North Woolwich and Stratford, in my hon. Friend's constituency. It does seem to be a striking example of a marked increase, because there were certain anomalies before. In the context of inner city problems we shall certainly look at commuting and the rôole that rail can play.

Mr. Fry

Following that supplementary question from the hon. Member for Newham, South (Mr. Spearing), will the Minister confirm that a family going by car pay their own way, unsubsidised by the taxpayer, whereas a family going by rail may be subsidised by up to 50 per cent. of the fare charged?

Mr. Horam

That bears again on the general question of the allocation of costs. Of course it is true that the car owner pays a bigger share of road costs than, for example, does the lorry owner. I agree with the hon. Gentleman to that extent. Nevertheless, this begs the question of how far we have properly allocated or accounted for environmental costs, for example. We do not really do that at the moment.