HC Deb 20 July 1977 vol 935 cc1578-80
6. Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson

asked the Secretary of State for Transport how many representations he has received from interested parties about the White Paper on transport.

Mr. William Rodgers

A few, Sir.

Mr. McNair-Wilson

Will the Secretary of State say whether any of those representations relate to paragraph 114 of the White Paper, about concessionary school fares? Is he aware of the very strong feeling about the three-mile rule to which it refers, in particular because the rule applies on the crow's-flight distance from the home to the school rather than the bus route? Has he discussed with his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science the possibility of schools opening at 9.30 a.m., so that people may take advantage of the cheaper bus fares?

Mr. Rodgers

No, I have received no representations on this matter since the publication of the White Paper, but I am fully aware that this matter causes concern. I have discussed it with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science and, as paragraph 114 makes clear, consultations are continuing to see whether an acceptable solution can be found.

Mr. Stan Crowther

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is widespread support in local government for two of the major principles in the White Paper—first, that there must be continuing and increasing revenue support for bus services and, secondly, that more discretion must be allowed to local authorities? Does my right hon. Friend agree that these two principles tend to vindicate the position taken by the South Yorkshire County Council, to which he objected last year?

Mr. Rodgers

I much appreciate my hon. Friend's generous remarks, but I am not sure whether the question of vindication arises directly. My hon. Friend states very clearly the principal directions in which the White Paper is moving. I remind the House of the important fact that about 37 per cent. of public spending on transport will go to public transport this year, compared with 19 per cent. in 1973–74.

Mr. Temple-Morris

Returning to the question of transporting children to school, the White Paper refers to efforts being made to introduce a standard charge, which apparently gave rise to a great deal of opposition. Will the Secretary of State enlighten the House more about what proposals were then made and relate them to the consultations that the White Paper tells us—as the Secretary of State said today—are continuing now? May we have more details on this point?

Mr. Rodgers

With respect, the question of the provision of transport for schools is normally regarded as a matter for my hon. Friend. There is nothing more that can be said at the moment, since the publication of the White Paper. Consultations will continue with those involved and I hope that a satisfactory solution will be found.

Mr. Norman Fowler

Surely the most significant feature of the White Paper, as the New Statesman said, is that it has abandoned practically all the pledges that the Labour Party gave in the two 1974 manifestos. Does the Secretary of State accept that the integrated transport policy is now dead? If he believes that it still lives, precisely how does he define it?

Mr. Rodgers

I define it in terms of the White Paper, which contained 30,000 words and which I hope the hon. Gentleman has read.